Same regulator as octopus?

[Cafka]

Hey,
I have a really basic question. I understand you have your second stage(primary) regulator, but for your alternate air supply(buddy air, octo.), do you have to buy another regulator? Is it the same as your second stage or a special kind of octopus regulator?

Thanks,
Cafka

 

[Hallmac]

You do not need to buy another first stage most places sell second stages in yellow that are traditionally used as a safe second but it is not required any second stage will do.

Hallmac

 

[Diver0001]

Cafka once bubbled...
Hey,
I have a really basic question. I understand you have your second stage(primary) regulator, but for your alternate air supply(buddy air, octo.), do you have to buy another regulator? Is it the same as your second stage or a special kind of octopus regulator?

Thanks,
Cafka

Hi Cafka,

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking why you would buy a "special" octopus for your alternate instead of just using another regulator the same as your main one.

There are a couple of reasons

The main reason is this: most modern regulators have high-performance primary second stages. A regulator like that is highly prone to freeflowing unless it's in your mouth. Even just rotating a high-performance reg so the mouthpiece is facing up (towards the surface) is sometimes enough to start a freeflow. You can get high-performace 2nd stages "detuned" to avoid this problem or one with a decent cracking-adjuster (resistance knob) can usually be adjusted to not freeflow. Likewise a specialised octopus generally offers slightly lower performance as a solution to the freeflow problem. It's a trade off between ease of breathing and ease of freeflowing.

Secondly is recognition. Generally an octopus is bright yellow. That makes it easy to see and quick for your buddy to locate. If you adhere to donating the primary and wearing the octopus around your neck this obviously isn't necessary but many divers still wear their octopus in the traditional triangle zone and ease of recognition is an advantage (even a safety feature). The same reasoning explains why the hose is yellow. Obviously your octopus will work with a black hose but they're made yellow so you see it easily when every second counts.

Cost is another reason. Generally speaking a specialised octopus is a less expensive option than buying two high performance 2nd stages. I personally don't believe that you should give cost a high-priority when choosing a regulator but realistically consumers do pay attention to this and manufacturers have responded to the demand for "cheap" alternates.

Hope that answers your question.

R..

 

[Boogie711]

Generally speaking a specialised octopus is a less expensive option than buying two high performance 2nd stages.

I agree... I believe manufacturers and LDS's take opportunity of people looking to save money by manufacturing "specialized" octo's. And I don't believe it's safe, either.

I dive an Apeks ATX50 on a long hose, with an ATX50 bungeed around my neck. I think it's the safest configuration available.

Otherwise, with 'specialized' octo's, you end up with pieces of crap like the Aqualung Low Profile Octo (that plastic POS) or crap like that.

Remember - quite often, the 'octo' is YOUR emergency air source. Get a quality one.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Your secondary reg should be of the same quality as your primary - particulary if you donate your primary. Even if you don't not's not considered good form to hand your buddy a POS reg when he's out of air, especially at depth.

It's true that a dedicated octo is detuned a bit to prevent freeflows. However most high perfromance regs also offer either an adjustment knob or an adjustable flow vane of some sort that also serves to prevent freeflows. The advantage is that they can be are-adjusted in water for peak performance when you need it.

Also, any standard regulator can be easily detuned a bit to make it more freeflow resistant, so I really would stay away from low cost, low quality octos. For a few dollars more you could by another primary second stage and have it adjusted to meet yopur needs.

Several manufacturers offer a high quality octo versions of their high perfromance second stages. Usually on a high performance adjustable model the only difference is a orange or yellow colored face plate.

 

[bermudaskink]

If you are planning to do any cold water diving make sure your octo is also anti freezing as your primary should be. For example, don't go and get a Mares abyss first stage and primary reg and a bottom of the range octo ... get the abyss octo.

I have an Apeks ATX 200, and an octo ATX 40, the octo is still a high performance reg (and anti freezing etc.) but no way as expensive and as loverly as the ATX200, I wouldn't dream of having an ATX200 octo! The ATX 40 is just as safe and reliable, but who cares about an amazingly easy and nice breather for their spare air... it also glows in the dark! Whoo hoo! Most good makes of scuba regs offer a cheaper octopus to hook onto your first stage that is still good quality. Ask the staff in the dive shop you are buying in, for advice and info on all the reg set ups they have and what octo they would reccomend for your own specific diving requirements.

If you never intend to do any cold water diving, don't bother with the expensive regs that have the anti freezing capability, if you know you want to do Nitrox diving, don't buy an expensive titanium reg, that wont be compatible with nitrox.

Best regulator makes IMO are Scuba Pro, Apeks, Mares & Dacor. I would avoid Sherwood, Aqualung, Oceanic and Genesis for regulators.

Another bit of info that you may not know and might find useful is whatever make your first stage is, will dictace who make your primary second stage and alternate. If you have an Apeks first stage, you can't hook up a mares primary and octo second stages to that. Apparently it's all to do with the pressure reducing abilities of the first stage and the recieving abilities of the second stages... different companies have different working pressures... as far as I know.

 

[Boogie711]

There's no difference between an ATX50 octo and an ATX200 octo. They're identical.

The only difference between your ATX40 and your ATX200 second stage is the lack of an adjustment knob.

Apeks even admits that the second stages for the 50 and the 200 are the same ones.

 

[bermudaskink]

The difference between the atx 40 and 200 is....

the price, the fact that the atx 40 octo is yellow, with a yellow hose, the fact that is glows in the dark, doesn't have the cracking dial adjuster (so breathes differently) and has a crappier mouthpiece compared to the lovely mouthpiece supplied with the atx 200, and assuming you're not wanting to have a DIR configuration, this is exactly the type of alternate you'd want.

I never said the atx 40 was completely different... just that IMO you wouldn't want to go and buy an identical black atx 200 ... cos that would be a waste of money.

Who cares if the 50 and 200 are the same..... that wasn't my point anyway. :blahblah:

If you choose to have a rarely used expensive reg hanging round your neck, be my guest.

 

[Boogie711]

I was trying to be nice!

Geez!

I stated earlier that I believe in having a quality backup. You stated that your 40 wasn't as nice as your 200 - I was pointing out that it's almost as good. There's nothing wrong with the 40.

Get the burr out! :wacko:

 

[Diver0001]

bermudaskink once bubbled...
<snip>

Best regulator makes IMO are Scuba Pro, Apeks, Mares & Dacor. I would avoid Sherwood, Aqualung, Oceanic and Genesis for regulators.

I'm curious why you think this. Care to elaborate?

Another bit of info that you may not know and might find useful is whatever make your first stage is, will dictace who make your primary second stage and alternate. If you have an Apeks first stage, you can't hook up a mares primary and octo second stages to that. Apparently it's all to do with the pressure reducing abilities of the first stage and the recieving abilities of the second stages... different companies have different working pressures... as far as I know.

This has to do with the fact that Apeks and Aqualung LX 1st stages are "overbalanced" that is to say that the IP increases a bit as your depth increases. You can debate *why* they did that but the fact is that this means taht your 2nd stage needs to be a *balanced* design. A normal unbalanced downstream 2nd (like a Mares) could theoretically start to bubble a bit at depth if you attached it to an Apeks or an Aqualung LX 1st.

Having said that, you'd probably have to descend several hundred metres for that to happen so what are we talking about?

It's also true that not all 1st stages operate at the same IP; however, both 1st and 2nd stages are adjustable so you can match them up. Mixing and matching isn't such a bad idea as long as you take tuning into account.

R..