Shallow Rebreather Use

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DennisS

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I'm completely clueless when it come to rebreathers. I'm curious about shallow water use-20-35 ft.

If you are deeper the PPO2 would require less O2 addition to keep your desired O2 level-I think ?.

If you are diving shallow, you would have to add more 02?

Is a 4-5 hour dive time in 20-35 ft in the normal range with existing gas and sodasorb setup.

Just asking questions for clarification.
 
I'm completely clueless when it come to rebreathers. I'm curious about shallow water use-20-35 ft.

If you are deeper the PPO2 would require less O2 addition to keep your desired O2 level-I think ?.

If you are diving shallow, you would have to add more 02?

Is a 4-5 hour dive time in 20-35 ft in the normal range with existing gas and sodasorb setup.

Just asking questions for clarification.


I'm just starting to learn, pending my class early next year.

As I currently understand it, your body metabolizes oxygen at a given rate. You inject oxygen back into the loop to maintain a given ppo2. That rate will not change with depth, so you'd use the same amount of oxygen at 20' as you would at 130'.

The main benefit to the rebreather is that you'd use the same amount of gas at 130' vs. at 20', whereas on open circuit, you'd use gas 5 times faster.

The deeper you go with a rebreather, the more efficient it becomes vs. open circuit.

Dive time will depend on the workload, temp, and type/duration of cannister being used, but 4-5 hours is possible on several units.
 
If you are clueless about shallow water rebreathers, ignor all those who say: " There be dragons out there..." and study: Rebreathers Worldwide , Diver Daves Rebreather Site and DIVESAFE.NET, Unbderwater Breathing Apparatus, rebreathers for Military and Sport Divers

You will learn from those who know rather than those who like to express their ignorance. The shallow water domain, to 1.6 ATA is the realm of the oxygen closed circuit rebreather. They are far more simple and reliable than the more complex rebreathers intended for greater depth. You can also down load the US Navy Diving Manual (see Chapter 4)and it will give you more information on actual use. I would suggest looking at the San-O-Sub C-96 Pro on and carry a Spare Air for bailout. You can get some instruction from Dive Safe right there in Florida and then dive safely. Never exceed ATA 1.6. Good luck!
 

You will learn from those who know rather than those who like to express their ignorance.
The shallow water domain, to 1.6 ATA is the realm of the oxygen closed circuit rebreather. They are far more simple and reliable than the more complex rebreathers intended for greater depth. You can also down load the US Navy Diving Manual (see Chapter 4)and it will give you more information on actual use. I would suggest looking at the San-O-Sub C-96 Pro on and carry a Spare Air for bailout. You can get some instruction from Dive Safe right there in Florida and then dive safely. Never exceed ATA 1.6. Good luck!

NOBODY that I know (and I know quite a few) that dive rebreathers would consider Spare Air as an adequate bailout.

<looking around for Dragons>
 
NOBODY that I know (and I know quite a few) that dive rebreathers would consider Spare Air as an adequate bailout.
Would work for a LAR V ... then again, you could just stand up to bailout. :rofl3:
 
Hi Dennis,

am just catching up with the forum here now. My thoughts on your questions:
I'm completely clueless when it come to rebreathers. I'm curious about shallow water use-20-35 ft.
Shallow water use is fairly uncommon with rebreathers. For truly shallow diving O2 rebreathers are used, like the above mentioned LAR V from Dräger. Mostly by combat swimmers (SEALs etc), to a lesser extend by researchers or UW monitoring (CA Fish & Game has a few for example), and a few by civilian divers. They're for most part limited to 6m/18ft depth since O2 becomes toxic at higher pressures.

If you want to venture deeper than that you need to dilute the O2, either with pre-mixed gas as is done on semi-closed units, or with a diluent tank like mixed-gas CCRs use. So for the range you're asking about, either one of these would do.

Since at that depth gas usage on OC isn't all that high few people would justify the expense and effort that rebreathers take, unless there's a particular requirement.

If you are deeper the PPO2 would require less O2 addition to keep your desired O2 level-I think ?.

If you are diving shallow, you would have to add more 02?
No, the O2 consumption is based solely on your metabolism. The harder you work, the more O2 you will need and the more CO2 you will generate. This is where rebreathers shine, CCRs in particular. You only need a small amount of O2 molecules, and only those are replenished in the loop. You'll need the same amount at the surface as you do at 50 ft or 250 ft., hence the enormous gas savings when diving deep. And the money savings on helium when diving deep.

The general average that is used is about 1 ltr O2/ min, so a small 13 cf rebreather tank (that's 2 liters x 200 bar = 400 liters) can literally last you several hours, independent of depth!

When diving a CCR, the most important thing is the partial pressure of O2, the pO2.
It has to be in a range that can sustain life, between 0.17 and 1.6 ata (air at surface is 0.21 ata, O2 at surface is 1.0 ata). These are the extreme ends, the pO2 is usually kept between 0.7 ata and 1.4 ata.

The partial pressure is based on the fraction of O2 in the gas and the ambient pressure, the get multiplied. In other words, at 18ft/6m O2 has 1.6 ata, hence the depth limit on O2 rebreathers. Air would have about 0,34 ata.

So when you ascend with a CCR, you have to add O2 to maintain the pO2 (while venting gas from the loop as you do on your BC :wink: ).

Diving shallow doesn't use more or less O2, changing depth or working level does.
You swim hard against a current, you breathe hard, you use more O2.

Is a 4-5 hour dive time in 20-35 ft in the normal range with existing gas and sodasorb setup.
Duration depends on a bunch of factors, CO2 already mentioned, ambient pressure, ambient temperature, kind of scrubber and scrubber media.

Only very few CCRs have ratings in the 4-5 hr range, the MK15.5 and the PRISM come to mind. However, duration ratings are usually based on worst case scenarios, very low temperatures (4-4.5 deg C/39-40 deg F) and high CO2 addition, 1.3 liters/min by the US Navy, 1.6 lpm by European CE standards.

Since CCRs use very little gas the supply is usually not the limiting factor. Scrubber duration, deco consideration and bailout gas supply are.
 
The main benefit to the rebreather is that you'd use the same amount of gas at 130' vs. at 20', whereas on open circuit, you'd use gas 5 times faster.

The deeper you go with a rebreather, the more efficient it becomes vs. open circuit.

While gas consumption is certainly one of the major advantages of diving a CCR you also have to note what it is capable of doing and that is significantly increasing your no-stop time / speeding up decompression. It is a dynamic gas mixing machine capable of delivering a constant PO2 regardless of depth.

Personally that is more attractive to me because you still need to carry adequate OC for bailout...so either way you look at it you still are lugging around a tank(s) with enough volume of gas to get you back to the surface. Within the recreational limits this isnt that bad.

J
 
As always, I agree completely with Stefan (caveseeker7). After all we share the same birthday!


DennisS -- I'm an instructor for the Kiss CCR. Any time you'd like to do a "try dive" let me know. I live in Lakeland and come down to south Florida frequently. In fact I haven't been down your way since Sunday and I'm not headed back there unitl Friday. :)
 
There are plans on the web for a $100 Build it Yourself pure oxygen rebreather using a hot water bottle as a counterlung, looks a little weird, one of these days I'm going to build one for the heck of it.

I have a old Carleton Cobra pure oxygen rig, I don't use it much. Except for the back mounted counterlung (which I don't care for, but always seem to wind up with) it was great for dives to 18 feet. IMHO, 20 feet doesn't really call for bailout system, that's a blow and go.
 
Since CCRs use very little gas the supply is usually not the limiting factor. Scrubber duration, deco consideration and bailout gas supply are.

What he said.

On the other hand, I had a great 6+ hour dive in Bonaire. Max depth 60 ft. Most of the time was above 30 ft. Video footage was great as the critters are not scared off by bubbles.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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