Should Shearwater add Air Integration to its computers?

[DevonDiver]

My alarms go off if the air is restricted. I know because I've tried breathing on my reg with the tank barely cracked when I first went to wireless AI. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. Of course, on sidemount, it's a lot easier to make sure everything is open completely simply by spinning valves.

That's good to know. I did genuinely wonder if the latest AI had sufficient 'refresh rate' to notice restricted air delivery. Otherwise, I can imagine novice divers losing an important warning signal if their 1st stage had issues, or if their tank wasn't properly open.

 

[stuartv]

Thanks for bringing that up, Andy. I've never checked what mine will do if the tank valve is only cracked on. I will have to check it now. I do know the manual for mine says that the transmitter checks tank pressure every 2 seconds when awake. That makes it seem like if I didn't draw a long enough, deep enough breath, it might not notice that the flow was restricted.

 

[BoltSnap]

There's a FIGJAM principle at work here: "If I don't dive it, sell it or teach it, it must be crap!"

For a few divers, the only way to show that they are techier than anyone else is simply to disparage others for how they dive or what equipment they use. It's nothing but a FIGJAM response that's thinly disguised to show that they, and they alone are the expert in the thread. It's tiresome and you can spot them by their OtT (Over the Top) responses that attack others and their decisions. If you don't know what FIGJAM means, click the link below, but it's NSFW!!!

Spoiler

**** I'm Good: Just ask me!

FWIW, I don't dive a Shearwater because it is not AI. I don't like lollipops when I sidemount. I dive with two PDCs, one on each wrist and two transmitters, one on each tank. There's also a small button gauge on each tank, but I really don't need them. I far prefer this over dangling or protruding SPGs that seem to catch on almost everything. I also went to a less techy PDC that accommodates two transmitters. I understand that there's a tech PDC coming out that will support multiple transmitters and you can bet that I'll be going that route when it comes out.

BTW, the easiest in water failure to avoid and the one I see most often is a leak on the SPG spool. I have yet to see a transmitter leak.

As an aside: my first depth gauge on my first dive in 1969 was a red ribbon. Kudos if you get it.

LOL, I couldn't have said it better myself

 

[The Chairman]

LOL, I couldn't have said it better myself

You're too kind! This summer will mark 47 years of diving. Unfortunately, the FIGJAM principle has been around as long as I have been diving. In debate, we call it a misleading vividness. Every few years we get a self appointed scuba messiah telling us how we're doing it all wrong. I felt compelled to point it out.

 

[DevonDiver]

Every few years we get a self appointed scuba messiah telling us how we're doing it all wrong. I felt compelled to point it out.

So, you don't believe that divers should be taught good horizontal trim and effective buoyancy? That you don't sell courses based on this philosophy?

That instructors who don't share your teaching perspectives; for instance; preferring to teach from their knees or believing that it's safer to overweight students, are doing it wrong?

You teach 'snobbish amounts of trim' because that is your expression of the art and science of diving. Other instructors teach according to their expression... technical diving, for instance is very much based on personal philosophy and approach. But when an instructor expresses their opinion on what, in their opinion, is right - or wrong - for that diving, YOU take great exception to it....providing it disagrees with your own views, no matter how minority your views are...

Personally, I think everyone is entitled to an opinion. Those opinions may differ... as they are largely a reflection of personal experience and perception. Community perceptions also exist.... and there are many consensus opinions in diving.... as there are agency opinions (which also differ).

Denigrating anyone who disagrees with your opinion as "a self-appointed scuba messiah" puts you into the same basket as those you level your finger at. I felt compelled to point it out.

 

[The Chairman]

Actually, unless they are destroying the reef by kicking, standing, kneeling and/or lying on it, you won't catch me criticizing them, much less bashing them incessantly. I have several instructor friends who still teach students on their knees in the pool. You don't find me posting "shame" videos or pics or going out of my way to tell people that the only way to teach is 'written in blood'. Do I have an ego? Sure. Who doesn't? Consequently, I have opinions about how I dive and why. No, I'm not afraid to express them. Some divers like my methods and some think I'm a stroke. Let's look at my stance on transducers. I certainly don't have an issue with people who use them. I certainly don't have an issue with people who use an SPG even though I rarely find one on my kit anymore. It's a dive and let dive philosophy. I eschew this "you're going to die if you don't dive my way" mentality.

In other words, I don't have a problem talking about my diving/teaching preferences and I love reading how others do it. I do have a problem when they are being couched in elitisms. I think such "I'm techier than thou" arguments do more harm than good. It shuts down communications rather than opening them up. Recently you made a comment about me being "desk bound", in order to make the point that I don't know as much as you when it comes to diving. I let it slide even though it made me chuckle, since I'm anything but that. Last year I spent more time out of Key Largo then I spent here. I traveled all over to dive, to train and to talk about diving. I had an incredible variety of experiences while doing it, both on land and under the water. Liveaboards, caves on two continents, tech dives, teaching OW and I even found time to become an adaptive Scuba Instructor. You mentioned that you don't dive for fun much anymore and that's almost all I do... even when I'm teaching. I'm anything but bound to a computer terminal.

Over the years, I've met my share of FIGJAMs. While some are benign, others annoy the hell out of me and I go out of my way to avoid being one. Here's my philosophy on how to avoid being a FIGJAM:

• Allow for diversity. My way to dive/teach/think isn't the only way. It's merely my way.
• Avoid "you're gonna die!" statements. Fear mongering isn't a good way to make any point.
• Avoid "Got You!!!" statements. Nothing says you're a FIGJAM more than trying to trap someone.
• Don't attack a diver's resume! You don't know as much about them as you think you do. That means not attacking them by overly puffing up your own diving resume as well.
• Don't attack a diver's integrity or intelligence. I would be happy if I never read one more "You're not even reading what I wrote" or "work on your reading comprehension" statement. I constantly evaluate and adjust my communication skills. If people aren't understanding me, it's my fault.
• Don't misrepresent a diver. Not even with leading questions. Look at your opening questions to me. What's their point? If you don't understand something, ask, but ask nicely.
• Not every post needs to be about 'me' and how I teach. Yeah, I'm still working on balance here.
• Don't be mean! You can have fun, make your points and even stir a pot or two without being mean. Avoid the harsh slap down.

If you want to make an impression: share your dives. Get your students and diving buddies to share about you. Give us pics and videos. Make us salivate at the cool stuff you're seeing and fun you're having. The name of my trim/buoyancy and propulsion class came from one of my students. She was commenting on another student's progress after taking one of my classes. I thought it was a pretty fun name, so I adopted it. No need to disparage how other people dive here. I'm just celebrating how I do it. I sincerely hope this helps.

So, how does this relate to our OP about Shearwater possibly adding AI? Realize that each of us is a single data point when it comes to how we dive or what we want in a PDC. It's not all about me or even you. I am certain that Shearwater is going to do what they see is in their best interest. All this bluster about their reputation will do this or that or how it will affect their service is way, way over the top in my eyes. They're going to evolve with the times and the technology and I'm OK with that. What's good for divers will be good for them. I can't wait to see what they come up with next. Wow me Shearwater! Wow me!

 

[stuartv]

Dang awesome post, Pete!

 

[stuartv]

BTW, I see myself in some of your bullet points (Pete). I will try to do better!

 

[DevonDiver]

It's a dive and let dive philosophy. I eschew this "you're going to die if you don't dive my way" mentality.

I don't disagree with you Pete - but it's also important to note a difference between a personal and professional opinion. They do differ...

With regards to AI and technical diving - there are agency stances on the issue. In another thread, I quoted - directly - from the PADI TecRec manual about SPGs versus AI. That wasn't a personal opinion... it was information that the OP had asked for (regarding doing Tec40/45 training).

As a tech instructor, I don't have the luxury of a 'dive and let dive' philosophy. People pay to be trained how to do something. I would be remiss to take their money and then say "hell, just do whatever you want". I have to consider three factors:

1. The agency approach, standards and teaching materials.
2. The community approach and consensus of 'best practices'.
3. My own experience and philosophies.

The majority of my posts here aim to be educational and informative, based on my professional expertise and experience. I like to teach and share. When answering questions or providing input to public debates I give the best professional advice that I can. Where my personal opinions differ from my professional opinions, I reserve sharing those thoughts to a non-public medium.

What drives this is an acknowledgement that a wide spectrum of divers read this board... and learn from it. Especially in regards to technical diving, where the risks can be high, I don't want to give an impression that it is okay to deviate from the consensus of best practice or standardized philosophies. Because, to do so, might infer that a less experienced diver can disregard critical training that would preserve their safety. I don't know who'll read my posts - so I have to give careful, responsible answers.

I do have a problem when they are being couched in elitisms. I think such "I'm techier than thou" arguments do more harm than good. It shuts down communications rather than opening them up.

I think people can easily interpret tech 'elitism' where it doesn't exist. Quoting standardized best practices, agreed philosophies and mindsets is not elitism... it's a reality in technical diving. The tech community strives to improve safety and learn lessons.

Ok... "written in blood" may have some dramatic poetic license, but it was used to describe the fact that tech philosophies and principles all stem from accident analysis. Used out of that context, it is easy to scorn that statement and make it look like just another moronic 'you're gonna die' drama... it wasn't.

What is important is for recreational divers to understand that technical diving mindset is driven by lessons learned from real world catastrophes. As a community, we strive to ensure that tragic mistakes aren't repeated. "Live and let dive" isn't the way to learn from mistakes as a community. There are no rules, no scuba police.... but there are lessons learnt, consensus best practices and shared philosophies and approaches.. and they all exist for a very good reason.

Recently you made a comment about me being "desk bound", in order to make the point that I don't know as much as you when it comes to diving. I let it slide even though it made me chuckle, since I'm anything but that. Last year I spent more time out of Key Largo then I spent here. I traveled all over to dive, to train and to talk about diving. I had an incredible variety of experiences while doing it, both on land and under the water. Liveaboards, caves on two continents, tech dives, teaching OW and I even found time to become an adaptive Scuba Instructor.

It's all relative really. For what it's worth, I just finished teaching a 7 day technical wreck course. My student was already Full Cave qualified by a former world depth record holder and is an experienced diving instructor. We completed a total of 864 minutes (14 1/2 hours...) of diving over the week.... all of it with accelerated decompression, multiple tanks and performing complex penetrations beyond the light zone in very silted, very confined wreck environments. For much of that time there was significant risk of death if all the risks weren't mitigated or the psychological stress was allowed to exceed personal tolerances. A very experienced technical wreck instructor (and his student) died in the same location a few years ago... we passed his memorial plaque (laid at the spot he perished) many times whilst crawling alongside our guideline through a restriction in near-zero visibility.

So... it's all relative. That's my "working week"... and that's the type of diving that forms my opinions and philosophies. In reality, I am very open-minded about new developments, technologies and approaches. But I take a responsible attitude to their adoption - especially in regards to what I teach or advocate. I cannot advocate to technical divers anything that is unproven, contrary to community consensus or in violation of core tech principles, without some very strong evidence to support that change.

• Avoid "you're gonna die!" statements. Fear mongering isn't a good way to make any point.

Correct with respect to recreational diving. Incorrect with respect to technical diving.

If/when you ever graduate to teaching technical diving, you will appreciate that stark warning of real risks (and consequences) is part and parcel of the syllabus and mindset.

When I have a tech student foul up a gas switch because they allow task loading to lead to a deviation from protocol... or miss crucial decompression because they got confused by information overload.... I am there to supervise and stop them getting hurt or killed. It is entirely correct that they know "they're gonna die" if they make a future mistake like that without an instructor to end the accident chain for them...

• Don't attack a diver's integrity or intelligence. I would be happy if I never read one more "You're not even reading what I wrote" or "work on your reading comprehension" statement. I constantly evaluate and adjust my communication skills. If people aren't understanding me, it's my fault.

Sometimes, in debate, people have presumptions, assumptions... or just get locked into transmission and stop receiving...

Call it FIGJAM, or whatever you want.... "I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you".

There's no attack on integrity or intelligence.... but there are situations where insufficient relative experience prevents someone from understanding an issue.

I think, though.... that ego stops some people from admitting that they don't have the relative experience to understand an issue. It dents their pride or self-image and leads to them finding any and every excuse for not being open to receive.

Now... I don't particularly care if an individual doesn't want to listen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. But I do care when an individual publicly posts spurious or dangerous information.... or exhibits an irresponsible mindset; that may/will influence less experienced divers who believe there is some authority or expertise in what is being said.

• Don't be mean! You can have fun, make your points and even stir a pot or two without being mean. Avoid the harsh slap down.

Whilst I don't aspire to be some type of Gordon Ramsey or Simon Cowell.... I do respect and admire their moral-strength to disabuse people of their fallacies.

If you wish to say "live and let dive" about technical diving philosophies and methodologies on a public forum, then I am going to point out that you exhibit a very 'non-technical' mindset and that your opinions don't represent either technical diving training or the technical diving community.

If you think it is 'elitism' to talk about a technical diving mindset, then I suggest you re-study your course materials from your tech courses. Different doesn't mean superior..... technical diving is different to recreational diving. It demands a different mindset, different philosophies and different approaches. I'd suggest that any suggestions of 'elitism' stem from personal insecurities and ego of the reader... not from what is actually communicated by the writer.

Raising those factors on this thread is entirely justified, as Shearwater currently makes technical diving instruments. I raised issues in my professional capacity as a technical diving instructor.... and I intended those issues to be enlightening for those divers who might not appreciate the priorities or mindset of technical diving. At no time was it a judgement of recreational divers, their needs, wants, perspectives or mindset. I have clearly said as much, many times, in this and other related threads.

 

[jodylynn007]

How so, Andy? What is being discussed is an AI version. That means the bare bones ones currently on the market would remain there.

I fail to see why a company would be a "sellout" and "lose respect" for catering for divers with different needs. I also fail to see how AI would be "loading it with junk function". Not useful to tec divers does not equate junk, or does it?

The logic behind rec divers requests seem pretty solid to me:
1 - Shearwater arguably makes the best computers for reasonable prices
2 - many rec divers would benefit from AI
3 - would be nice to have the best computers with AI

How that can be detrimental to the tec community is beyond me.

I agree with the above as an experienced recreational diver. I purchased the Liquivision Lynx AI computer and would have gone with a SW if they had an AI model available to choose from. As a photographer, I appreciate having to only look at my wrist once to get all my dive information in a quick glance and can then go back to my subject. I find that AI lends itself to checking my air and other stats more frequently as it's so easy to do so.