Solo Death Criticism

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The fact that he was solo may have saved another life. I'm sure that place was silted out badly after the incident. An untrained buddy would have never made it out if this was the case.

Cave divers are one of the facets of diving where some agencies neither support or condemn solo diving. I was instructed during my full cave class on the proper precautions to take if diving solo. Some dives almost require solo due to the silt and small passages during exploration.
 
The two subjects here Formal Training and Solo Diving are apples and oranges.

Formal training (Cave for this discussion) cannot be properly learned on your own. Basically "YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DON'T KNOW". (Not yelling, just making sure this is seen) When you learn it in a class you will say "wow that makes sense" but most will never figure it out on your own. The equipment is different, taskloading is much higher, and body positioning and propulsion methods are foreign to the average recreational diver.

There are so many things that have to be relearned because recreational training is specific to train masses in the minimum skills and standards. Those skills and standards are more than adequate for most recreational open water divers. If it wasn't the death and incident stats would be significant. It took years of people dying in caves to come up with methods to dive this different environment safely. The deaths are way down. Most of what you see now are medical issues and equipment malfunctions (mostly rebreathers). Two or three a year are like this recent death at Vortex. A much better track record due to formal training.

Solo diving, on the other hand is much different. There are many caves I do not want to dive with someone because of size and visibilty. They are solo caves. I had written in another post, a while back, If you are not ready to be a solo diver, how can you really be a good buddy? If you don't have the skills to be in a particular location or situation, how will you be able to help the person you are diving with if things go south? Solo diving is not for everyone any more than cave diving, wreck penetration, etc.

In this case you have an untrained person who dives in caves, not a cave diver. To a person who has not been through formal training this person probably looked experienced. To those of us that are, we shake our heads in disbelief because of the mulititude of broken rules that lead to his death. He had a lot of it figured out, the "what's" anyways. But he didn't understand the "Why's". You Don't know what you don't know"
 
I don't understand your point. ...

I think I may not have been clear about my point, which is: skill and competence can be acquired by means other than instruction in a formal class. For example, an expert specialty diver might simply have been mentored without ever having taken a formal course in that specialty. If the unfortunate happens and this diver dies while on a specialty dive, is it then his/her lack of formal training in this specialty to blame?

When I was taking my Cavern and Basic Cave courses in Florida in 1988, I met incredibly accomplished cave divers who had never taken a formal cave diving course. They had been mentored. When I moved to the Great Lakes region in the early 1990's and began taking technical diving courses, I met incredibly accomplished deep wreck divers who had never taken a formal deep wreck diving course, or a decompression diving course, or a tri-mix course. They, too, had been mentored. (Indeed, this was at a time when the term "technical diving" was still new to the scuba diving lexicon.) Surely people can still gain specialty competence by this approach? Or some other approach other than formal specialty instruction?

My other point is that I believe too many people--including scuba divers who should know better--too quickly conclude that because someone doesn't have a C-card earned from a formal specialty course, he/she is not competent in that specialty, and if that person should die while pursuing this specialty, these people will too quickly demonize this "unqualified, irresponsible" diver.

Ronald
 
My other point is that I believe too many people--including scuba divers who should know better--too quickly conclude that because someone doesn't have a C-card earned from a formal specialty course, he/she is not competent in that specialty

I wholly agree with this in many cases but if you believe that cave diving is just a "specialty course", then you are missing a lot about it. Read the thread that prompted you to start this one, watch the videos and think.....if that does not change your tune then I hope you do not become the next statistic. Or you could go back to "all you training" and think about it long enough to realize that the stuff you have been taught is not something that gets learned by reading on SB or over drinks in a bar.
 
When I was taking my Cavern and Basic Cave courses in Florida in 1988, I met incredibly accomplished cave divers who had never taken a formal cave diving course. They had been mentored. When I moved to the Great Lakes region in the early 1990's and began taking technical diving courses, I met incredibly accomplished deep wreck divers who had never taken a formal deep wreck diving course, or a decompression diving course, or a tri-mix course. They, too, had been mentored. (Indeed, this was at a time when the term "technical diving" was still new to the scuba diving lexicon.) Surely people can still gain specialty competence by this approach? Or some other approach other than formal specialty instruction?

I understand your point and I agree that people can gain competence through mentors rather than formal training. But I think this would be far more common for people living and diving in the areas that you pointed out for years. Not so much for someone who lives several hundred miles away who only visits on occasion to make these dives.

Also, training wasn't as developed or easy to find in the late 80's and early 90's. Some of this stuff was still emerging and developing. Formalized classes didn't exist as much and mentoring was about the only viable option.

By the same token, look how many lives were claimed in caves and deep wrecks during some of those years. Training and awareness has cut those numbers considerably, IMO.
 
I think I may not have been clear about my point, which is: skill and competence can be acquired by means other than instruction in a formal class. For example, an expert specialty diver might simply have been mentored without ever having taken a formal course in that specialty. If the unfortunate happens and this diver dies while on a specialty dive, is it then his/her lack of formal training in this specialty to blame?

When I was taking my Cavern and Basic Cave courses in Florida in 1988, I met incredibly accomplished cave divers who had never taken a formal cave diving course. They had been mentored. When I moved to the Great Lakes region in the early 1990's and began taking technical diving courses, I met incredibly accomplished deep wreck divers who had never taken a formal deep wreck diving course, or a decompression diving course, or a tri-mix course. They, too, had been mentored. (Indeed, this was at a time when the term "technical diving" was still new to the scuba diving lexicon.) Surely people can still gain specialty competence by this approach? Or some other approach other than formal specialty instruction?

My other point is that I believe too many people--including scuba divers who should know better--too quickly conclude that because someone doesn't have a C-card earned from a formal specialty course, he/she is not competent in that specialty, and if that person should die while pursuing this specialty, these people will too quickly demonize this "unqualified, irresponsible" diver.

Ronald

Yes, it's possible. Unfortunately the death rate is much higher when learning on your own so we have gone to formalized training, including a mentoring aspect, that does an adequate job. This has brought the fatality rate very low compared to before standardized training. Back when it was new, people were a bit more cautious about it because it was unknown. The internet has brought the info to the forefront and novice divers are able to glean what they want.

According to the divers logbook he made an incredible 14 dives in a cave before he perished. What does this say for the self taught method?
 
I've been following the Vortex incident thread without anything to add but a few "Thanks", but since this is in our semi-private Solo forum, I thought it might be a better place for reflection.

I agree with the OP here that the first news report did make it sound like Bob's big error was diving solo, when of course that turns out to be the least of his problems. Then again, that's the press - the same kind of people who later wrote articles about his "decomposition tanks". :shakehead:

Here's what I was thinking: This guy was scuba diving's Chris McCandless. Do you all know his story? There was a book and then a movie called "Into the Wild" about him; but for those unfamiliar, he was a young man who marched into the Alaskan wilderness after discarding his maps, with basically nothing more than a .22 rifle and the clothes on his back. On purpose.

He died when the rivers swelled and he could not cross back the way he came to return to civilization, although if he had kept a map he would have known there was a cable crossing specifically built for individuals to get across the river not too far from where he was. He died at his campsite either from starvation or possibly eating some poisonous plants. He left behind a vivid diary of his explorations.

Some adore him as a hero who threw away the maps in order to simulate a real exploration of the unknown - since pretty much everything has already been mapped and explored by someone else or some device nowadays, consciously avoiding that information is the only way to experience that sense of discovery for yourself.

Some of course call McCandless an idiot, and point out that, as much as he researched Alaska before he headed cross-country to get there, he certainly knew the very real risks and dangers, so what he did was tantamount to suicide. Suicide by willful ignorance.

I lean towards the latter, but I am also sympathetic to the former interpretation. Personally, as discussed on other threads, while I am a solo diver, I otherwise am not interested in pushing beyond typical recreational limits. In fact, those limits along with a bit of redundant gear are what let me dive solo without feeling I am being unduly risky. Yeah, I got my cavern cert but mostly just for the skills - I have never intended to do much overhead diving of any kind, with or without buddies.

But at one time I was a kid growing in north Alabama and south central Tennessee: Cave Country (and not the underwater kind). In fact, the national HQ for the NSS was in my hometown of Huntsville, right on Cave Avenue (there is even a huge cavern right under downtown that was used as a dance hall at one point). Now, the NSS had mapped most of the caves in the area. In fact, they placed registries in them way in the back so you could sign in that you had been there. But we weren't interested in following someone else's map of those caves - we wanted to explore them ourselves, figuring out our own way to crawl up the chimneys and over the ledges, squeezing through a tight spot in the hopes of finding some new large cavern beyond to explore. I even (stupidly) swam out a water-blocked exit once because I could see the light coming through, even though I had no mask or snorkel and nothing on my feet but heavy hiking boots. It was completely unplanned. We were exploring, and for us it was uncharted territory, the NSS be damned.

Now, this guy in Vortex was no kid, and cave diving is several orders of magnitude more dangerous than traditional spelunking, map or no. But given that this was obviously his conscious choice, that he had given it some thought and certainly had some knowledge and warning of the risks, and taken deliberate actions to accomplish his goal, I think his situation is much like McCandless'. Yeah, they both died because of it, and left behind hurt and confused family members, but both obviously died doing what they wanted to do, and I can think of much worse deaths... in fact, working in hospitals as I do, we see lots worse ways people die - whether quickly smashed to pieces in a car wreck, or slowly as some cancer gnaws you away from the inside out.

It's the one event that you're guaranteed to experience, one way or another, risks taken or not, whether solo or surrounded by loved ones - how do you want to die? And how harshly are you going to judge someone else who dies doing what they wanted to do?
 
I've been around the block a few times -- and the world -- and done a lot of things in my life, from climbing El Capitan to flying jets on aircraft carriers.

Something about recreational and technical scuba diving that I've noticed : What you don't know can kill you.

The old adage "don't dive beyond your training" wasn't dreamed up by some risk managers in corporate office. It came about as the result of real-world lessons-learned from preventable deaths.

AS they used to say in the old publications Naval Aviation News:

'NUFF SAID!

Harry
PADI "Master"
NACD "Full cave"
SDI "Solo"
 
The number one reason for deaths in underwater caves is lack of appropriate training. This comes from 40 years of accident analysis.
 
This is Solo diving. We've taken it up a few notches. We're not following the rules. Some of us will undoughtily die doing it.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom