Some thoughts on restructuring SCUBA training ...

[Walter]

Wait till I tell you hear my AOW story:

When I was getting my AOW, one dive shop told me that this is how they would conduct my course. Please pay attention to the following as this is interesting:

dive 1: Shore Dive + Navigation
dive 2: deep + wreck
dive 3: drift

Five specialities were squeezed into 3 dives to save spots on the boat!!!

Except for quality control, this is not an agency issue. That instructor was clearly violating standards. While there are issues with standards, this is not one of them.

The OP's stated concern with training was:

"I think this is a recipe for producing incompetent divers who will put their lives in danger along with other people."

My statement was that I have no reason to think divers are dying in large numbers due to inadequate training. The annual DAN studies of dive incidents and fatalities do not appear to show that poor training is a significant contributor.

Do I think most new OW divers are well-trained?

Hell, Walter, most of them can't even swim!

I'm glad we agree many divers are inadequately trained. As for putting their lives in danger, of course they are. The better the training, the less the danger, but the danger is never totally gone. Divers don't have to be dying in large numbers due to inadequate training for them to be in greater danger than is wise. Hell, back in the early days of SCUBA, most divers had no training at all and yet the vast majority survived. Would they have been safer with training? I think they would.

 

[*dave*]

For those of you who can't google, here are some links.

This one says you do the bookwork at home and then attend a 2 day class. A third day is optional, but not required.
PADI Two (2) Day Weekend Open Water Scuba Diver Courses, Lessons and Classes Tampa Florida (Fl)

With this one you do the bookwork online first, then the class itself is 2 days.
Florida Scuba Diving Classes Crystal River FL Scuba Dive Class

And whadayaknow? I was wrong! These guys do offer a 1 day certification course!
Learn to Scuba Dive, Scuba Diving Lessons, Scuba Diving Classes, Scuba Diving Certifications

Thanks for digging those up. They are offering two day OW certifications. Clearly, I was wrong.

Dave -I would love to post names and contact information for dive shops but scubaboard is facing a lawsuit and I dont want to cause trouble for this site.

What's the worst that could happen? There's already been links posted casting the listed shops as offering two day courses when they, in fact, don't. If there were a potential for trouble, that would be it.

 

[boulderjohn]

Dave -I would love to post names and contact information for dive shops but scubaboard is facing a lawsuit and I dont want to cause trouble for this site. I am surprised that you are having such a hard time believing that no one in the dive industry anywhere in the world is teaching an Open Water in 2 days.

Wait till I tell you hear my AOW story:

When I was getting my AOW, one dive shop told me that this is how they would conduct my course. Please pay attention to the following as this is interesting:

dive 1: Shore Dive + Navigation
dive 2: deep + wreck
dive 3: drift

Five specialities were squeezed into 3 dives to save spots on the boat!!! Yup. I was wondering why dont you take me for a very long shore dive and cover all five specialties? You really think In this crazy world there is no one squeezing OW training in 2 days? No one anywhere in the world????

What you describe is a standards violation. You should report it.

A real 2 day course is also a standards violation. You should report it.

You want to ban 2 day courses. They are already banned! If people are doing it, then they are violating standards and should be reported.

 

[boulderjohn]

Thanks for digging those up. They are offering two day OW certifications. Clearly, I was wrong.

What's the worst that could happen? There's already been links posted casting the listed shops as offering two day courses when they, in fact, don't. If there were a potential for trouble, that would be it.

You weren't wrong. Academic instruction is part of the course. It should count.

 

[Walter]

A real 2 day course is also a standards violation.

Is it? It was at one time, but I've been told standards have changed to allow it. Are my sources wrong?

You weren't wrong. Academic instruction is part of the course. It should count.

True, but I don't count time students spend at home reading the text. If it's done outside of class, I don't count it.

 

[boulderjohn]

I
True, but I don't count time students spend at home reading the text. If it's done outside of class, I don't count it.

But the instructor is required to go over all the knowledge reviews and ensure that the student has completed the work. A final exam is required. This takes a lot of time in addition to the self-study. Do you not count that?

If the student takes the e-Learning format instead, then that time is spent online. The student must then come in and meet with an instructor who reviews material to make sure the student has indeed mastered it. The instructor then gives another exam. Does that not count?

I don't see any mention of those activities in those courses listed as 2-day.

 

[Walter]

Do you not count that?

I count time for the final exam. Final exams rarely take all that much time, certainly not enough to extend a class another day.

Any thoughts on my question, John?

 

[tkdgodess]

I took a 2 day course in Cebu Phillipines. in 1992 I was there for an extended vacation visiting family, and I had always loved water. Confined water was the bay, Open water we swam out futher. Just Me, My Dad and the instructor. The lessons I learned from that instructor have stuck with me even today, and I have things he did with me that I carry to my students.

It's the mentality of the individual wanting to dive. I don't need to discuss all the types here on Scubaboard, but I believe essentially if someone has the desire to dive, become educated, do well in class/pool then the performance requirements fine to put out safe divers in our local conditions. If the instructor cares, the shop cares and the student is willing to learn it's all there. If one of those is missing, then things can go to hell in a handbasket.

I DO care about the students I train and the skills they must master. I can have them do another pool session. I can ask them to rewrite the final if they barely pass. They are told what the standards are to pass and if they want to exceed that. What I don't understand is these are ADULTS who sign up to learn to dive, they sign a learning agreement, then they show up late, don't do their homework, and get angry when I ask them to do things in the pool, especially after the video they should have watched, the pool sessions explained in the book they should have read, and the classroom skill briefing I gave, then the pool deck briefing - good grief some people act like it's high school PE ~they signed up for it!

 

[Herk_Man]

It's human nature to want to accomplish something as quickly and easily as possible. The only way to make better training stick would be to require it.

Imagine what would happen if it were possible to get a bachelors degree in 1 year from an accredited college. Very few people would bother with 4 year schools.

Only if companies were willing to hire them with that degree. The ocean doesn't give a crap who jumps in.

 

[Cave Diver]

I also do not care about putting numbers in the water. I train divers not balance sheet entries.

Jim, is this something you're able to make a living at, or is it something you do on the side after your bills are paid?