Split from: Are you AFRAID to Post?

[Diver0001]

Point of View Warrior: A person who aggressively promotes their POV over all others, often accusing those who disagree of having various motives including greed and avarice.

And pushing their point of view by presenting lies, interpretations, opinions and 1/2 truths as if they were facts in order to "convince" people at all costs that they are right and that people who do not agree with them are wrong.

You see it in every discussion even remotely related to training standards or crime in Bonaire, for example. Just go in the Bonarie forum and look for a thread about crime and you'll see what POV warriorism is.

Netdoc, et al.... I think I speak for everyone when I say.... Please give it a rest. This thread isn't the right place for a therapy session about old-blood. Please take it to PM's or start a new thread. (and I'm afraid, Netdoc, if you keep pushing that button you're going to turn this thread into yet another POV thread about training standards..... something we don't need, even if it *does* prove your point).

R..

 

[Randy43068]

this degeneration is typical of SB threads, sad to say.

 

[The Chairman]

Netdoc, et al.... I think I speak for everyone when I say.... Please give it a rest.

As you wish.

 

[Diver0001]

this degeneration is typical of SB threads, sad to say.

Not just Scubaboard. It's endemic to online BBS's. I would hope that moderators on Scubaboard are finding an acceptable middle-road between doing too little and letting every thread spin out of control, and doing too much and interfering with people's right to speak.

It's a big grey area with no easy solutions so some things are likely to get derailed no matter what you do.

R..

 

[Walter]

Oh, goodness, this thread started by trying to talk about reasons why people don't post . . . and has turned into another chapter in a long-standing argument involving only a few people. I think the thread would be far better served if we created a PM group for the combatants and let them have at it, someplace where it didn't interrupt the flow of communication in other threads.

Actually, it's on topic. Pete believes people might be afraid to post because other folks disgree with the standards of the agency through which they've been certified. I believe a much more likely reason is they think they may get labeled if they express their opinion.

I have never known you to admit being wrong.

Heck Pete, in the post you just quoted, I admitted to being wrong. I'll go one better, show me an example of where you've used this insult in a way other than with someone with who you disagree and in a post where you actually address the points of disagreement and I'll happily admit I'm wrong this time.

 

[OldNSalty]

When even the big dogs can't help but break it down into something like PADI vs XYZ what hope do the rest of us have.

There should be a rule, like the Godwin rule, for something like this.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I don't see it as a pejorative. We have an assortment of Dog Pilers, POV Warriors, PADI Bashers and just plain meanies who are quick to subtly slam others up until their behavior is pointed out. Then it's time for them to call out the whaaambulance since they somehow feel accosted for having their behavior identified as such. They are the reason this thread even exists! I have had people actually apologize to me for being trained by PADI. Why? The POV Warriors have told us over and over how bad PADI standards are. There are many people who won't post because they don't feel that they belong to the "in crowd" of those who think that there are only a few good Scuba Instructors in the entire world.

Why sweep a problem under the rug and act like it does not exist? We have created special zones to keep these types of people under control and STILL they try to spread their Gospel POV. Rather than take umbrage at the term, you should be disgusted at how POV Warriors ruin the experience and limit the learning for a LOT of people. To your credit, I see you trying to educate them and I have also seen you modify your message of instructional doom and gloom. The same can be said for Walter and a few others.

If someone calls you a POV Warrior, you can do one of two things...

1. Be insulted. Hey, it's the easy way out.
2. Look within and try to understand why they called you that.

You can be sure that I don't use that term to try and win a point or an argument. I certainly don't use it to endear me to others. I use it only when I see it. Make no doubt about it: I have lost advertisers over the Warriors because they see our approach as systemic and even a part of our cyber culture. I'm not worried much about the money aspect... but I do worry about the message we convey to the world. ScubaBoard has a bad rep for being anti PADI and pro DIR. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are Pro Diving... in whatever form that takes us.

While I don't think namecalling is appropriate, I agree that there is much truth in what Pete says. Particularly about being anti-PADI. If you are anti-PADI, then you are anti-most certified divers, dive shops, DM's, and instructors. That attitude is indeed a part of why this thread exists.

As a rule for better posting, I would suggest this: Remember that we all come here freely as equals. You are not superior to anyone else.

 

[The Chairman]

Heck Pete,

PM sent.

 

[Mike Boswell]

Oh, goodness, this thread started by trying to talk about reasons why people don't post . . . and has turned into another chapter in a long-standing argument involving only a few people. I think the thread would be far better served if we created a PM group for the combatants and let them have at it, someplace where it didn't interrupt the flow of communication in other threads.

Thanks, we owe you one.

Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[boulderjohn]

Is this site considered anti-PADI?

Well, I am an avid participant. I have learned a lot here. Yet I have never once suggested to any of my students that they join.

Instead I tell them that there are scuba forums out there that have strongly opinionated people posting strong positions, and that they should approach those opinions cautiously and not accept those opinions until they have had time to give them a great deal of thought. I speak of such forums generically. I do not mention ScubaBoard by name because I fear they will go there first and be immediately hit by a blast of messages telling them how bad their instruction was and what a totally crap instructor they had with me. I prefer that they look around first and get some experience before discovering these toxic waters.

I am not alone. I know other SB instructors who do the same.

Just a couple of days ago a brand new diver joined SB and posted his introduction in the Introduction forum. He almost immediately got blasted with a somewhat crude post telling him how bad his instruction was and how much better it would have been if he had gone with another instruction/agency. In the introduction forum! Can't we even wait until the guy gets into the regular forums before hitting him with that message?