Start my Cavern/Intro training!!

[KevinNM]

In my cavern course the instructor ran it once at Ginny, I then ran it badly at a Ginny (and I think I then reran it without zigzagging all over the floor), then I ran it twice at Peacock 1. But it was just me.

 

[rddvet]

Here is the bigger picture. Out of four Intro dives how many times should two students run the line if the instructor runs the line on the first dive? That leaves three dives for two students. So one student gets to run it once and one student gets to run it twice. Will running that exact protocol make uber excellent line runners? That would be the course standard if the instructor only ran the line once.

I think you're missing the point a little. I'm no instructor, so take what I say with a grain of salt as it's only my opinion based on personal experience and what I observe of cave classes. I generally pay attention to what's happening around me at sites in relation to cave courses as I like to hear what different instructors say as well as often you pick up a tidbit you didn't from your instructor. Anyway, I think ideally the students should run the line each and every time a dive is done in a class. The caveat to that is as in your example, the instructor uses the opportunity to show the class how it should be done in a particular cave. In reality, a diver should learn the basics of running line in cavern class. From that point forward, you should just be learning by doing. And in my opinion, I feel as though the instructor should give you a very thorough briefing prior to the dive as to what area the line should be run toward, how to keep it out of everyone's way, and some pointers like the flow is high at x-point so make sure there's no slack in the line. Then the student should use that briefing to get it done, with the instructor either giving some in-water pointers as you're laying the line, or cleaning up mistakes after the student to ensure safety and then debriefing about the pros and cons of how the student did back at the surface. It's great to watch what an instructor does, but learning by doing is generally better (but obviously is student-dependent as well).

I have seen instructors run a primary for a student every single dive in a class, tell the students to leave the line in for the next dive rather than practicing pulling it, and I've even seen instructors not run a line at all because the gold line is "so close to the surface now". That was my only reason for bringing it up, because it's crazy some of the crap you see. I think tbone's comment about the instructor running the line so the students have enough gas for the dive is bs crap teaching. If your student blows through so much gas that you can't get all the skills done, then you need to add an additional dive. Doing it for them doesn't teach squat. Learning to run line in OW doesn't account for varying terrain in the cave, flow, or learning to get out of the way of exiting divers.

 

[Doby45]

I think you're missing the point a little. I'm no instructor, so take what I say with a grain of salt as it's only my opinion based on personal experience and what I observe of cave classes. I generally pay attention to what's happening around me at sites in relation to cave courses as I like to hear what different instructors say as well as often you pick up a tidbit you didn't from your instructor. Anyway, I think ideally the students should run the line each and every time a dive is done in a class. The caveat to that is as in your example, the instructor uses the opportunity to show the class how it should be done in a particular cave. In reality, a diver should learn the basics of running line in cavern class. From that point forward, you should just be learning by doing. And in my opinion, I feel as though the instructor should give you a very thorough briefing prior to the dive as to what area the line should be run toward, how to keep it out of everyone's way, and some pointers like the flow is high at x-point so make sure there's no slack in the line. Then the student should use that briefing to get it done, with the instructor either giving some in-water pointers as you're laying the line, or cleaning up mistakes after the student to ensure safety and then debriefing about the pros and cons of how the student did back at the surface. It's great to watch what an instructor does, but learning by doing is generally better (but obviously is student-dependent as well).

I have seen instructors run a primary for a student every single dive in a class, tell the students to leave the line in for the next dive rather than practicing pulling it, and I've even seen instructors not run a line at all because the gold line is "so close to the surface now". That was my only reason for bringing it up, because it's crazy some of the crap you see. I think tbone's comment about the instructor running the line so the students have enough gas for the dive is bs crap teaching. If your student blows through so much gas that you can't get all the skills done, then you need to add an additional dive. Doing it for them doesn't teach squat. Learning to run line in OW doesn't account for varying terrain in the cave, flow, or learning to get out of the way of exiting divers.

I gotcha bud and again I apologize and see your point. Case in point is the crappy line that snagged me on the way in on my last or second to the last dive.

 

[Jack Hammer]

C'mon, it's an Intro class...

Most people I've spoken with who did basic training at Ginnie had the instructor demonstrate running the line into the Ear once then after that it was up to the students. I think that's safer and wiser than throwing students into heavy flow with a reel and letting them figure it out themselves. That's safer for the students, the instructor, and other teams entering / exiting there.

 

[rddvet]

C'mon, it's an Intro class...

Most people I've spoken with who did basic training at Ginnie had the instructor demonstrate running the line into the Ear once then after that it was up to the students. I think that's safer and wiser than throwing students into heavy flow with a reel and letting them figure it out themselves. That's safer for the students, the instructor, and other teams entering / exiting there.

As I said, instructor doing it first is acceptable. Doing it everytime isn't

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Very often after a cavern class I take students into Devil's Eye for their first time. I have the student run the reel. I go in front of them & go backwards---showing them the route and the places to complete ties and placements. Its a difficult "swim" for me, but gives the student good experience.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Very often after a cavern class I take students into Devil's Eye for their first time. I have the student run the reel. I go in front of them & go backwards---showing them the route and the places to complete ties and placements. Its a difficult "swim" for me, but gives the student good experience.

This was my experience as well. In fact, with two different instructors, the only time I didn't run a reel was the last experience dive of full where I asked the instructor to run it just so I could see his technique with the Ear.

 

[Doby45]

Let me reiterate again, not every aspect of the class was covered in the review. I just did a basic run of the "good" stuff and there was a LOT of the "I am not writing all this down and no one wants to read all that stuff". I assure you, myself and my buddy in both Cavern AND Intro ran a line more than most would in a class. As stated before I did not write that I did a valve drill in the review because really who cares and there are other items not covered that could "steal some of the class thunder" if you published it for all to see. In closing, the class was informative, entertaining and I personally believe it made me a better diver in a number of areas.. Am I king of the world uber bad ass mega Florida cave diver? No. As @kensuf said I now have my permit to learn.

 

[jerrwhy01]

When I did my NAUI Cave-1 course with Kensuf we took turns. However, NAUI also mandates bringing a safety bottle so if I wasn't running a reel I was schlepping an AL80 to tie off next to the reel.

 

[psdiver102]

When I had my intro class with johnny, I ran all the lines. He followed behind and would stop me after its ran and would move it to where it needed to be. Running the line into the ear wasn't bad, but taking it out was a pain in the ass in that flow