Stiffer fins EASIER on joints?!?

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diver_doug

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Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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Alright, so this is totally counterintuitive, but I can’t doubt my own experience. When I first got certified I bought the Mares Raptor split fins. I hated them but since they were the first pair of fins I had ever owned, I thought that I just hated fins period as opposed to hating split fins (through salespeople and magazine reviews I was so convinced that splits were inherently amazing that I thought “man, if I don’t like these fins, I would really HATE paddle fins). Anyway, after about 15 dives I really didn’t look forward to diving at all because I was having such problems with control, propulsion, and knee pain (I didn’t have any knee-pain prior to diving). So I finally did some research online and found that there were a number of divers who complained about propulsion/maneuverability issues with splits, and I decided to give some paddles a try; I purchased the Avanti Quattros. What an immediate difference! No propulsion issues, much-improved control and greatly-lessened knee strain (in part due to using my knees less since I could frog-kick). Quattros kept me diving; if I hadn’t have changed my fins I may have ended up quitting.

So I used the Quattros for about 90 dives…definitely thought/think they are an excellent fin, but I felt like a shorter/stiffer fin would offer more power and more precision; but I was worried that a stiffer fin would be more difficult to kick, more fatiguing, and more taxing on my knees. After tossing the idea around for a while and looking up various reviews, I finally purchased the Hollis F1’s. Wow…what a great fin. For typical up/down/up/down kicking they are so-so, but for frog kicks, helicopter kicks etc. they are fantastic. For frog-kicking, not only were they easier to kick than the Quattros, but they also offered more propulsion. I noticed virtually NO knee fatigue with the F1’s as opposed to moderate fatigue with the softer Quattros and major knee-fatigue with the splits. Tack onto that the huge increase in control/precision the F1’s offer, and my poor Quattro’s have been relegated to the “spare” section of the garage :depressed:

So back to my original point; this seems counterintuitive, but I have noticed LESS joint-pain/fatigue with STIFFER fins. Not exactly sure what to attribute this to…part of it likely has to do with the vents on the F1’s. Part of it also likely has to do with the fact that I used my knees less and my ankles more with Quattros and F1’s (no, my ankles don’t hurt now!) But I think a lot of it has to do with the stiffer fins doing what I want…I’m not frustrated trying to get the F1’s to do this or perform that way; they simply do what I want. I want good propulsion-done, I want to rotate-cool, I want to position myself upright-easy. I know what I want the fin to do, and the fin will do it; so there’s no frustration involved in the movements.

So, this thread is not intended to be “splits Vs. paddles” or “splits suck” or “Quattros Vs F1’s” or anything of that nature…I fully accept that different people have different preferences. But I’m just curious to know if any of you have had a similar experience, where you noticed less joint-issues/fatigue with stiffer fins?
 
I have found any longer stiffer (splits or regular) fins to be painful to my knees which have I've had 2 surgeries on. I have sold all of these.

When I need (real) control (not used in the last 4 years) - I use ScubaPro Jets.

Day to day (I take these all over the World with me) - I love my Apollo Split (3 pairs).

I will have surgery on my left knee in March. Today, MD shot cortisone in both of my hips because of messing-up/pain caused to my hips by the injured knee.

Yesterday, I went on a "Alsea Crab Dive" which requires hiking down/up a steep rocky path and then chasing large male dungeness crabs. I put a knee brace on my left knee and, once in the water, never thought once about it. I had a blast. Climbing out of there was a different laborious story. Each person needs to pick whatever works for them.
 
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Reactions: BKP
Both above posts a perfect testament to: use what works for YOU... and renders most other arguments irrelevant...
 
I own and used SP Split fins, Aqualung Splits, JetFins, the New Aqualung adjustables (I forget their name) and I don't get any knee pain from any of them. SP Splits and the New Aqualung adjustables are best choice but I have to use the JetFins because of their bigger foot pocket size when I have to use a drysuit with rock boots. I wish Aqualung had adjustables with bigger foot pocket.
 
I suspect what irritates joints is going to vary, depending on what structures are damaged and causing the pain.

When I started using the Dive Rite fins I recently bought, I ended up with an extremely sore right ankle (which is one I had put back together a while back). They are paddle fins, almost as stiff as my Jets, but longer -- the change in shape was clearly enough to change the way stress was distributed between my ankle and knee. (Interestingly, after using them for a while, the problem seemed to gone away -- acclimatization?)
 
Using flexible fins such as split fins or even scuba max aero's means more flutter kicking than frog kicking.
Flutter kicking:
knees bent, hybrid bicycling, or going legs stiff
will determine how much strain you put on your knees throughout a dive.

I find that more flexible fins allows you to move your legs through the water faster. Also with flexible fins I find that you need to kick harder to get that recoil and push through the water. To get big pushes you also need to use your knees more so, and exaggerate your kick.
Imagine it like punching thin air VS punching a soft mat. Spend about an hour doing each and I'm pretty sure you're elbow is gonna be in pain punching air more so that punching a pillow.
In comparison, flexible fins allow you to swish your legs faster through the water, but this in turn can hurt your joints since fast hard kicking is the only way to truly get a good pace on flexible fins.
You're moving your legs fast and stopping them fast which can put strain on your joints.
On the other hand stiffer fins gives you resistance as you kick, so your muscles get sore and your joints are spared.

I shadow what BKP said, use what works for you.
I also would like to add on and say do what you want to do.
This would include how you kick and how you dive. As long as you're having fun and not endangering yourself or anyone else.
 
What's "counterintuitive" mean?
 

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