Subic Bay - 17th Jul - 2 divers missing on USS New York

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...Mr. Brittain may have indicated to Mr. Chow (surviving diver) to "go on ahead" or (and this seems more likely given team diving, at least in my OW head) to wait where he was*.


It appears from the article that Brittain motioned for Chow to come back toward him and Tin:

article:
A third diver, 49-year-old Chow Fung Lung of Hong Kong, told officials he saw Tin stop and turn around as they were leaving the wreck. He said Brittian signaled Chow to come back and then proceeded to go to Tin.

Chow said it was dark and he lost sight of the two, so he followed a line to the surface.
bold added

It also appears that Chow attempted to follow them back in but lost sight of them and aborted the dive:

flchow on hkdiver.com:
Re: Subic Bay Accident 由 flchow » 週三 7月 20, 2011 9:03 am
The only regret that I have from this dive is:

I should not had removed the jump line which helped me to feel my way out when I was separated from my buddies as well as completely lost with near ZERO visibility. I should had ran the line all the way back to the tie-off point of the main shot line. My buddies might came across this line!!!!
 
Ayisha,

I think it was the article quoted in post #13 that I had in mind:

Chow left the dive site first and said that he saw Tin stop and turned around as they were leaving USS New York, Brittian signaled to him that he would go back to go Tin.

I see that it does not say that Mr. Brittain told Mr. Tin to go on ahead, so I was wrong there, and thanks for pointing that out; but I can see how I interpreted it that Mr. Brittain asked Mr. Tin to, essentially, "Wait here I will go see to/get Mr. Tin and come back."

I did see where Mr. Chow felt that the press had mis-reported the story, so I would not be surprised if all these versions are somewhat wrong. I should probably have gone back and reviewed the thread though, as I believe I was wrong in even mentioning the part about "you go on..." It seems like Mr. Chow only went on when quite a bit of time had passed and neither of his team-mates were back yet.

I am still interested in the team protocol in the case of three people, probably single file, wherein the last person loses contact with the first and second person in the team. However, if that's too much of a tangent, then please don't disrupt the thread.

Blue Sparkle
 
I get the impression that the 3 divers were leaving the wreck. As they neared the exit, the last diver (Tin) might have had some problem. Steve signalled Chow and then returned to assist Tin. Chow went to follow Steve. At that time the visibility had deteriorated to a dangerous level. Chow couldn't make contact with either of the other divers and aborted... leaving the wreck by deploying a safety line.

I doubt anyone will ever know what exactly happened with Tin and Steve. We could theorize that Steve was trying to assist Tin, when his own air ran out. As an experienced instructor, he would have been under considerable self-imposed pressure to 'look after' a diver that he would have seen as his responsibility... and possibly pushed his attempted rescue too far, or then got disorientated/trapped/lost.

Tin had air left when he died, which opens up a lot of possibilities; as just 'being lost' wasn't the only factor in his death. Medical complications or panic must be seen as primary possibilities. Tin's remaining air may also indicate that he died before Steve. If Tin died early in the incident, it would explain why he air remaining and also why Steve didn't. It would also fit with the fact that Chow had to abort and surface (I assume, due to diminishing gas).

I don't read much into the fact that Tin's mask and reg were displaced when they recovered his body. It could have happened before (contributing to) the incident, it could have happened during the incident (maybe indicating panic), but it could also have happened post-mortem (if Steve was trying to recover him).

The 'general' protocol for zero vis is that the team groups and exits whilst maintaining touch contact and communicating via tactile signals. If the team is separated, then the missing diver drill is used. That basically consists of shading lights and looking. If that isn't successful, the remaining team will check their gas supplies. Their gas will determine the extent of their search. To search, they will mark the line and then quickly search back down the line (if the line is still deployed behind them or permanent). If that isn't successful then the team will deploy a safety line off the primary line and search using that.

The primary line is left in place, until the team is reunited and ready to exit. If the team isn't reunited, then the line stays (with marker) to enable a more rapid rescue/recover and also to give the lost diver some chance of still finding their way out. Divers may also (ideally) leave their search line in place. There may be reasons why that might not be considered the best option. Any lines deployed in those circumstances will always be marked to indicate the direction of exit.

Whether the whole team conduct that search/es, or whether one member of the team does it alone isn't standardised amongst the community.

My personal preference is to have a single searcher (me). The remaining team member (team max of 3) might wait where the line was initially marked and the primary/safety lines are joined.

It is possible to for each remaining team member to deploy their own safety line and run simultaneous searches - the benefit being more distance/options covered. However, it really does depend on the visibility - as coordinating separate searches in low/zero vis may well pose more problems and risks than the benefit it provides.

It really depends on the experience of the team. An experienced diver leading two less experienced divers may choose to take more personal responsibility for the search and prefer that his remaining team member was static (my preference). They may even escort the remaining member out of the wreck and leave them at the exit point, whilst they returned inside to search.

Ideally, the precise protocol to be used would be communicated and understood prior to the dive.

From the reports thus far, it's hard to work out what protocol the divers concerned were using. We don't know if Steve communicated with Chow to stay static, to exit the wreck or to return with him to assist/find Tin. If he did intended for Chow to return with him, then he should have waited for Chow to catch up and they should have gone back together cohesively and in constant contact.

We also don't know whether the team was on the permanent line, or whether they had deployed their own guideline. If they did, were they reeling out? If so, Tin (3rd diver) would have been operating the reel. That makes me think they were on the permanent line (or in an area where line is not typically needed) - otherwise Chow and Steve would have been able to follow a deployed guideline straight back to Tin.


Anyone who dove with Steve on similar dives, might care to share insights on what protocols Steve usually briefed/taught/followed?
 
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Maybe I am reading too much into the order in which the bodies were recovered. It puzzles me that Steve was found deeper in the wreck than Tin. If the team was leaving together with Chow in the lead, Steve second and Tin in the rear. and Tin had some problem causing him to fall back with Steve going back after him why was Steve found deeper in the wreck? It may never be known what happen with Tin, why he expired with gas on his back, but it seems to me based on the condition in which he was found that Steve was in control of himself and actively working on trying to solve the problem right up to the point that he couldn't anymore.

This was certainly technical wreck diving, but I wouldn't consider it extreme diving. Given the experience and technical capabilities of the divers involved it is hard to comprehend how this dive could have gone so wrong.
 
Be careful folks. As far as I know from news reports and a few folks who've chimed in on this thread we still aren't entirely sure where the two were found. I posited from what little I've read on recoveries, etc. that I believed that Steve may have been a bit deeper in, but that is not confirmed. We still don't know if other factors may have led to a different recovery order. I've not read any official word that they were discoverd together (although I think that they probably were).

As to the reports, a best guess as to how and what events transpired can be gleened from commonalities among the news reports, but that's still just a big guess. Numerous scenarios can be created by cherry picking among the articles for a story that best fits a given idea, but only two guys really know the truth and they aren't in a condition to talk. I am anxiously awaiting any further reports or eyewitness accounts regarding the accident, but know that those will be slow in coming if they are ever released at all. There's just so much contradictory information on this one.

I'm not chiding against speculation. In fact, I'm a big fan of it. Unfortunately, due to the contradictions on this one just about any scenario imaginable is equally valid at this point. My main point, I guess, is that I don't actually know what I'm talking about, so please don't take my speculation as gospel.


In my opinion the telling facts so far are;
it was a technical dive
divers were seperated
visability was low
Steve was OOG and Tin was not
Tin was found/recovered first

My surmise;
it was a technical penetration
team sperated purposefully
Steve went back to help Tin (although whether or not he found him ???)

I'm not yet TechWreck and I value DevonDiver's and others' input as to some of the protocols, possibilities, etc. I considered Steve somewhat of a friend and am hoping to eventually learn what led to this accident. If it could happen to him...
 
I get the impression that the 3 divers were leaving the wreck. As they neared the exit, the last diver (Tin) might have had some problem. Steve signalled Chow and then returned to assist Tin. Chow went to follow Steve. At that time the visibility had deteriorated to a dangerous level. Chow couldn't make contact with either of the other divers and aborted... leaving the wreck by deploying a safety line.

I believe that theory is supported by this statement as well as the others in post #101:

A third diver, 49-year-old Chow Fung Lung of Hong Kong, told officials he saw Tin stop and turn around as they were leaving the wreck. He said Brittian signaled Chow to come back and then proceeded to go to Tin.

Chow said it was dark and he lost sight of the two, so he followed a line to the surface.
 
Maybe I am reading too much into the order in which the bodies were recovered. It puzzles me that Steve was found deeper in the wreck than Tin. If the team was leaving together with Chow in the lead, Steve second and Tin in the rear. and Tin had some problem causing him to fall back with Steve going back after him why was Steve found deeper in the wreck? It may never be known what happen with Tin, why he expired with gas on his back, but it seems to me based on the condition in which he was found that Steve was in control of himself and actively working on trying to solve the problem right up to the point that he couldn't anymore.

Steve being found deeper in the wreck than Tin could be consistent with being disoriented or searching. Who knows what the actual reason is, but those possibilities seem consistent with the info to date.
 
Steve being found deeper in the wreck than Tin could be consistent with being disoriented or searching. Who knows what the actual reason is, but those possibilities seem consistent with the info to date.

And / or bad vis, could have went right by Tin and not seen him.
 
Folks, there is no mention of Steve being found 'deeper in'. The recover team got Tin out, then suspended recovery because it was getting dark. They went back in the early morning to get Steve out.

They knew were Steve was, when they went back in the morning. That seems to indicate that they were close together.
 
Folks, there is no mention of Steve being found 'deeper in'. The recover team got Tin out, then suspended recovery because it was getting dark. They went back in the early morning to get Steve out.

They knew were Steve was, when they went back in the morning. That seems to indicate that they were close together.

Thanks,
 
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