Talk me *OUT* of a BP/W setup

[BreeAbyss]

It definitely could have been a bc that had too much lift for the situation. I just found it hard to dump and add the right amount of air so I was up and down more than I like to be. I'm sure most of it was because I'd never used a jacket combined with it probably being a pretty crappy one.
I have nothing against a jacket bc, and tons of people use them with no issues, but a bp/w is just as good for beginners and I can't talk the OP out of them

 

[DevilDog3/7]

New to diving, been researching, and have had a lot of votes for a BP/W setup. It almost seems like everyone experienced just advocates to spring for this.

Yet the standard BC jacket is immensely popular.

Arguments AGAINST just getting set up in a BP/W from the get go? I'm a 31y/o male who doesn't mind things being a tad more complicated and plan to be a (relatively) active local diver (cold water, PNW) + tropical vacay diver.

I'm open to either. Unsure of future aspirations as I have yet to have much experience.

I switched to a BP/wing about 7 years ago and haven't regretted the decision one bit. I then tried to talk my wife into giving up her zeagle for a BP/wing hemmed and hawed, and finally said go ahead so I bought her a nice setup through DRIS and she loves it. She was wearing 22lbs with zeagle and a 5mm. She bought a heated vest went to a 2.5 waterproof and dropped to 14lbs and she's loving life. Do it you'll love it.

 

[Bill Wimsatt]

So, I read the boards here and elsewhere. Looked at various configurations and brands. I finally decided to go with a DR package with the travel wing and XT lite. Can't wait to get it to try it out. Now I am going to start looking for some tech classes (GUE or TDI) around Denver to get more comfortable. Nobody I dive with uses BP/W and I could branch outside PADI for other skills.

Since this was originally about talking OUT of BPW, I will give my very amateur impressions

1) so many options. A jacket BC is just easy to purchase. BP, Wing, and Harness seem easy, but wing lift, SS/AL or other BP, BP with/out STA, hog harness or other, etc. it is daunting. Packages like I did through DGX are somewhat easier, but it still requires homework.

2) Local support. My FLDS does not have anyone with BP/W experience to learn from or get advice. There are two shops with tech but without someone I know/trust it is tough.

3) safety. My daughter is 19yo at PADI rescue and we are planning to practice, but I travel often without her. If there was an issue is a buddy on some random dive boat going to be comfortable with my setup. This is the biggest consideration I went through. DM levels, no problem, but I often have novices as buddies. My last buddy was from Venezuela and did not speak a lot of English. We were fine with hand signals, but not sure about walking through a harness. Maybe unreasonable but still a consideration.

4) travel crews. I read about boat crews pinching wings and causing damage. I like to manage all on my own, but some foreign crews really work for their earnings and will do more than you desire. An issue? Not sure yet.

Given all of that, I went with a DR package. I can upgrade wing or plate and likely will as I progress. But the above issues are real items that need to be considered for those of us divers that are not 50+\yr divers. Jackets are easy for casual divers. I am hoping my choice will make me a better diver.

 

[mattia_v]

I think the issue is they look more complicated than they really are, simply because they come as a sort of kit. I'm speaking as a relative novice who switched to a BP/W from rental gear.

Setting up the harness is the only real fiddly bit if you have nobody to show you what's normal, but it is doable. And a harness is easier to explain than most BCDs. It has one buckle. Pop that off and the rest sorts itself out.

What I really like is the simplicity under water. One dump valve. Recognizable inflator hose. One buckle. In my case integrate weight pockets with simple large clasps. No clutter so it's immediately clear what various bits are and do. Far less messy than many jackets with colorful trim, pockets, rings, more pockets, cummerbund, buckles everywhere.

I'll admit I was a little overwhelmed, but most of that went away after getting the gear and playing around with it, and all of it went away after diving it, which is not significantly different from diving a jacket.

 

[rivers]

3) safety. My daughter is 19yo at PADI rescue and we are planning to practice, but I travel often without her. If there was an issue is a buddy on some random dive boat going to be comfortable with my setup. This is the biggest consideration I went through. DM levels, no problem, but I often have novices as buddies. My last buddy was from Venezuela and did not speak a lot of English. We were fine with hand signals, but not sure about walking through a harness. Maybe unreasonable but still a consideration.

It's a BCD like any other. I assist open water classes in a wing. Most of the instructional staff at the dive school I work for teach in a wing. Most students learn in jacket style. Do a proper buddy check, show them how it works, and put a trilobite in an easily accessible place so you can be cut out if needed. They are not complicated.

 

[Lorenzoid]

1) so many options. A jacket BC is just easy to purchase. BP, Wing, and Harness seem easy, but wing lift, SS/AL or other BP, BP with/out STA, hog harness or other, etc. it is daunting. Packages like I did through DGX are somewhat easier, but it still requires homework. . . .

I see this point mentioned surprisingly often, and I just don't get it. Sometimes I think all the discussion on SB about BP/W makes it sound more complicated than it is. There are actually fewer decisions to make about a BP/W than there are about a jacket BC. Steel or aluminum is not a big difference--something like 3-4 lbs. In most cases, either will do fine. Buy steel if you need the weight, aluminum if you don't. Even if you buy the one that isn't optimal, it's only a 3-4 lb. "mistake," and you could always buy another later. Does one buy a single-tank adapter (STA)? If one dives a single tank, and the wing isn't one of the few that have a built-in single-tank stabilizer, then YES, you need an STA. Hogarthian harness: yes. It works for most people, but modifying it to suit you preferences would not be a huge deal later. How complicated is that?

Someone ought to develop a flowchart for those who don't want to do 30 minutes of "homework." If one is lazy (I know I am), "homework" could be as simple as a few emails or talking on the phone with Tobin from DSS, who will determine exactly what you need based on the kind of diving you plan to do. That's what I did. A few days later, I had just the package (plate, wing, harness) I needed, and I've never looked back. You really going to spend less time than that shopping for a jacket BC, where the dive shop salesperson shows you a dozen different options? I just do not get how shopping for a jacket BC is easier than for a BP/W.

4) travel crews. I read about boat crews pinching wings and causing damage. I like to manage all on my own, but some foreign crews really work for their earnings and will do more than you desire. An issue? Not sure yet.4) travel crews. I read about boat crews pinching wings and causing damage. I like to manage all on my own, but some foreign crews really work for their earnings and will do more than you desire. An issue? Not sure yet.

I am not sure yet, either. This was a concern I had. I have had some crews who seemed unaccustomed to handling a BP/W toss the rig about quite disturbingly--lifting it by the wing alone, plopping it down in a tank holder without minding the wing bottom, etc. But so far, I have had no pinch flats in several years of travel and hard use. I suppose today's wings are pretty robust.

 

[dmaziuk]

Someone ought to develop a flowchart for those who don't want to do 30 minutes of "homework."

More like a tree of diverging paths: most of the choices are independent, there's no "flow".

 

[stuartv]

Now I am going to start looking for some tech classes (GUE or TDI) around Denver to get more comfortable. Nobody I dive with uses BP/W and I could branch outside PADI for other skills.

I would send @boulderjohn a PM and see about taking a class with him or someone he might recommend.

I see this point mentioned surprisingly often, and I just don't get it.

My first BCD was my BP/W. Having been through the process of consulting "the Internet" to learn how to rig it and fit it and then going through the process of diving with it and ultimately getting it adjusted to fit "right", I have to say that I view a regular integrated BCD as much easier to just buy the right size, put it on, and go diving. I think it's much easier to get it fitted properly than a BP/W when you are doing it by yourself, without the benefit of someone physically present to help who knows how the BP/W should fit.

All those online tutorials about how you should just barely be able to reach back over your shoulder and touch the BP and you should be able to put a fist between your chest and the shoulder strap are nice, but they just get you kind of close. Or at least, that's how it went for me.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
My first BCD was my BP/W. Having been through the process of consulting "the Internet" to learn how to rig it and fit it and then going through the process of diving with it and ultimately getting it adjusted to fit "right", I have to say that I view a regular integrated BCD as much easier to just buy the right size, put it on, and go diving. I think it's much easier to get it fitted properly than a BP/W when you are doing it by yourself, without the benefit of someone physically present to help who knows how the BP/W should fit.

All those online tutorials about how you should just barely be able to reach back over your shoulder and touch the BP and you should be able to put a fist between your chest and the shoulder strap are nice, but they just get you kind of close. Or at least, that's how it went for me.

I have to agree with that much. Note that I didn't respond to Bill's second point. My response was limited to the notion that it takes "homework" to select and order a perfectly suitable BP/W package on-line. However, as to his second point, I completely agree that there's nothing like having someone show you the ropes to avoid a whole lot of frustration. After diving with a jacket BC for over 10 years, my transition to a BP/W was anything but smooth.

 

[Neilwood]

I have to agree with that much. Note that I didn't respond to Bill's second point. My response was limited to the notion that it takes "homework" to select and order a perfectly suitable BP/W package on-line. However, as to his second point, I completely agree that there's nothing like having someone show you the ropes to avoid a whole lot of frustration. After diving with a jacket BC for over 10 years, my transition to a BP/W was anything but smooth.

Life would be a lot easier with BP&W if more shops actually stocked/used them. Then staff would be more aware of the finer points of the set up.

I was lucky in that my instructor wore a BP&W so 5-10 mins adjusting the set up before my first dive with it was time well spent.