The Big Secret...

[MikeFerrara]

It was nice to see...Tax laws sneak in here...

Afterall, the IRS & SCUBA Agencies operate the same. They both take our money because we let them... and we do nothing but complain about it and keep taking it up the old keister.

How many other jobs (other than Instructor or Dive Master) in the world do you keep paying out of your own pocket to be able to go to work and do everyday? Scuba professionals have got to rank as either the nicest people in the world or the dumbest... When you go to work you're supposed to make money - not spend it. The agencies keep requiring more and more money from their dive leaders... buy this course... give us your money so you can teach that course... buy your insurance from this agency... in cahoots with the insurance company... PT Barnum had Scuba divers in mind when he mentioned theres a sucker born every minute... what say you all?

I think the dive industry is rum a lot like a pyrimid scam or something.

But...the point I'm always trying to make and I'll try again is the...since certificationa re required here is what often happens in a dive shop. Phone rings...potential customer says they are going to the tropics on vacation and they'd like to dive but they were told they need a certification. They ask what it costs and how long it takes to get. They are very busy, already spent a bunch on the trip and the trip is in two weeks. They call the next shop who issues the SAME IDENTICAL CARD and ask the same questions. They select a class based on cost and convenience. After all each shoe ISSUES THE SAME EXACT CARD and the card is what they need. Each of those SAME EXACT CARDS gets you the exact same access and privilages so why not buy the cheapest fastest one? They are buying access not training. Because of this many divers seem very happy to buy what might be very inferior training because all they're shopping for is the card (access).

If the card were not a requirement, divers would buy training on the basis of the value of the training. the cridentials of each school would not be EXACTLY THE SAME. Some would be more highly valued than others. The quality of training and the reputation of the cridential would sell classes as apposed to short schedules and low prices.

I'm all for training and most people would probably still choose to get training. I'm just not for the kind of training that you'll find at most dive shops in this "all cards are equal... buy your access here cheap" system.

Has the certification system made diving safer? I think quality training can certainly improve safety but the certification works against that and discourages the offering or purchasing of quality training. ALL CARDS ARE EQUAL but some are a lot cheaper and faster to get.

It's not about safety.

 

[stevetim]

Awesome enjoy the sights. When did it become a requirement to be certified to dive a wreck?

I should have clarified it tech wreck diving with mixed gases beyond RDL. Sorry about the miswording.

 

[Jeyung]

How many other jobs (other than Instructor or Dive Master) in the world do you keep paying out of your own pocket to be able to go to work and do everyday? Scuba professionals have got to rank as either the nicest people in the world or the dumbest... When you go to work you're supposed to make money - not spend it. The agencies keep requiring more and more money from their dive leaders... buy this course... give us your money so you can teach that course... buy your insurance from this agency... in cahoots with the insurance company... PT Barnum had Scuba divers in mind when he mentioned theres a sucker born every minute... what say you all?

Go take a look at any martial arts center that's registered or a gymnastics training facility they both have the same kind of headaches. You need this insurance, now you have to pay these dues to say you can teach under us, you have to buy our book on how to run your business, your students needs to pay dues to compete, to be able to compete you have to go to x number of competitions a year, you can only sell gear from these companies, if you place an ad it must have our logo (oh that cost a couple bucks too) blah blah blah. It might not be course driven but the headaches are the same.

 

[Heffey]

yepnope

Read it again.realityThen do some searching.Since it is not illegal, it is legal.ban?

You are talking about government action now. The subject was the actions of a private business. Please pick a subject and stick to it.The proprietor of the dive shop has rights too.

Thanks for all of the information Don.

Your responses, though useless, are appreciated.

Jeffrey

 

[pants!]

Andy, how do you rent air? LOL, do you have to turn it back in after the dive?

Heck, with all the time I spend in the dive shop waiting around for the guys to fill my tanks, they get back every cubic nanometer of air that I 'rented'

As for the original point, this was made very clear in my OW class and appears (to me) to be common knowledge among anyone with a C-card.

 

[pants!]

lol...

ah... yeah... i think "someone" is living proof of that

Self-deprecation is not enviable

 

[adurso]

I should have clarified it tech wreck diving with mixed gases beyond RDL. Sorry about the miswording.

De Nada. But the same applies, no law against diving beyond RDL or using mixed gases. No rules against diving deep air.

 

[Don Burke]

Thanks for all of the information Don.

Any time.

The problem is that you are looking for proof that a law does not exist.

That would require looking literally everywhere.

Perhaps you have the time for that.

I do not.

Your responses, though useless, are appreciated.

It would appear there are many things you have difficulty putting to use.

In case you suddenly acquire some abilities:

Here is a link to US Code:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/uscode/index.html

Here is a link to the CFR:
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfr-table-search.html

Since you want to find statutes, here is a link to Virginia Code:
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/src.htm

While I am at it, here is a link to Virginia Administrative Code, which a rough equivalent to the CFR:
http://leg1.state.va.us/000/srr.htm

For the rest of the US and all of Canada, perhaps someone else has links.

 

[Ron Brandt]

I am always one to further a discussion.

On this same note.

I wonder if there is the possibility for a discrimination case if a LDS refused to provide services because of the lack of a recognized C-Card?

I'm not saying that a LDS should sell air to an unqualified person. I just wonder if the courts would see it the same way, being that there are no actual regulations that preclude the LDS from providing the service.

LDS or other people in business may believe that they may pick and choose who to do business with but in regards to this I believe the law may not agree.

I surely hope that there is never a bored, uncertified millionaire who decides to push the point. I am really not sure how it would turn out.

Jeffrey

We have one guy in town that is going to stop recognizing one agency's C-Card because...well he's not sure but thinks of them as being the competition,even thou the nearest store is an hours drive away.

Ron

 

[Ron Brandt]

Originally Posted by Heffey
is it legal to discriminate against a customer because they lack a c-card or have the wrong c-card?[/QUOTE]

Yep


I would love to see the actual law if possible.

Ron