The Big Secret...

[Heffey]

I suspect that it would be --- unless there is a correlation between HS education and protected demographic variables. If there were, then a judge or jury might well not believe your somewhat absure explanation and decide you are really attempting to violate someones constitutional rights.

Is it absurd to assume that because a particular educational milestone has not been reached that we believe that these people are otherwise inexperienced or inept and must be protected from themselves?

My scenario is basing a store policy on a person’s education without any focus on their actual experience, non-organized training, or background.

How is the c-card for air fill thing any different?
Jeffrey

 

[H2Andy]

How is the c-card for air fill thing any different?

the c-card covers the store's butt when the widow of the dead diver
starts looking around for people to blame

("he showed us his c-card, so we sold him air")

 

[Firebrand]

yup... more properly, a pilot's certificate or airman's certifcate:


FAR 61.3(a):

Persons may not act as pilot in command or in any other capacity as a required pilot
of a civil aircraft of U.S. registry, unless they have a valid airman certificate in their
physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges
of their airman certificate.

Yeah, I don't want to get on a plane and hear, "Good afternoon, this is your captain speeking. I am not a 'certified' pilot, but I do have 3000 hours on Microsoft Flight Simulator!"

I also don't want to get on a dive boat and hear my buddy say, "I'm not a 'certified' diver, but I did watch "The Deep" 3000 times, so I certified myself!"

 

[Barracuda2]

Being the old fart here, I dove without a c-card for 17 years; '58- '75. I got one without formal instruction from a dive instructor friend of mine because that's when it started to be required before before I could get fills or admission into some dive sites. You're right drbill, I wonder sometimes how I survived my early days of diving (without BC's, pressure gauge, [remember the old J valve on the steel 72's?] computers, etc.

Barracuda2

 

[Heffey]

the c-card covers the store's butt when the widow of the dead diver
starts looking around for people to blame

("he showed us his c-card, so we sold him air")

So you are saying that it is the LDS's insurance that stipulates the must have c-card requirement?

 

[crlavoie]

Well, I for one won't be signing up for any classes from the Crlavoie School of Self Instruction!

Sorry, you should read crlavoie's posts. He is a major proponent of proper training and even supports "standards based" programs. You are still confusing education and training with certification. The 2 have NOTHING to do with each other when it comes to diving.

Sorry if I'm being an ***** but there is a point to be made here and some people get it or are starting to get it. Hopefully it will cause a few folks to think a little more critically about the past time we love so much.

Remember, this isn't golf here people....

 

[Firebrand]

I understand the point you're making - a certification card doesn't necessarily mean someone is a trained or skilled diver. Just because someone does not possess a C-card doesn't mean they're not trained. However, the certification card lets those who work in the industry know, at one point in time, that individual demonstrated a "basic skill set" and passed a written test.

If I operated a dive shop, I would NOT sell air/nitrox or rent equipment to a person who does not posses a certification card. It is a way for the people working in the industry to cover their butts when a diving accident occurs. Don't you think the civil claims attorneys (like the ones you see advertising on TV) would leap out of their skin to take a case where a person walks into an LDS, claiming they're nitrox certified, pays for the tank of EAN36 and the LDS DIDN'T ask to see the individuals certification card, then that person decides to dive on the Andrea Doria, only to wind up dead from oxygen toxicity?

However, I do think that some agencies have gone overboard with the "C-card" mentality, especially for those "specialty" dives where the diver forks over a sum of cash, does a few dives, and becomes an instant "expert" in some field or another.

 

[H2Andy]

So you are saying that it is the LDS's insurance that stipulates the must have c-card requirement?

probably... at the very least, the owner likely thinks it's a good idea

it's just a way to standarize risk, an industry practice that, if followed,
will lessen your liability

 

[BIGSAGE136]

Prudent

 

[mweitz]

Nice Troll. Very well crafted. You even managed to get people arguing about tax laws, and with just the one post.

Nice,

Mark