The Big Secret...

[dbg40]

and very sad.

 

[Don Burke]

Ok Don,
You have been telling me the way it is with a number of short snippets and proclamations of fact.

yep

You post a law link and say “happy hunting” and now you post as though you know exactly what the statute is.

nope

Read it again.

What are you basing these statements on?

reality

This is not some big political thing for me. I am simply curious about the legal technicalities of this issue.

Then do some searching.

How do you know that it is legal?

Since it is not illegal, it is legal.

Is it legal for me to ban the sell of canned tuna to people without a high school education for fear that they may cut themselves while opening the cans?

ban?

You are talking about government action now. The subject was the actions of a private business. Please pick a subject and stick to it.

I just find it difficult to believe this would be legally acceptable, especially in the USA’s rights oriented society.

The proprietor of the dive shop has rights too.

 

[toodive4]

It was nice to see...Tax laws sneak in here...

Afterall, the IRS & SCUBA Agencies operate the same. They both take our money because we let them... and we do nothing but complain about it and keep taking it up the old keister.

How many other jobs (other than Instructor or Dive Master) in the world do you keep paying out of your own pocket to be able to go to work and do everyday? Scuba professionals have got to rank as either the nicest people in the world or the dumbest... When you go to work you're supposed to make money - not spend it. The agencies keep requiring more and more money from their dive leaders... buy this course... give us your money so you can teach that course... buy your insurance from this agency... in cahoots with the insurance company... PT Barnum had Scuba divers in mind when he mentioned theres a sucker born every minute... what say you all?

Nice Troll. Very well crafted. You even managed to get people arguing about tax laws, and with just the one post.

Nice,

Mark

 

[mweitz]

Wow, troll squared.

 

[H2Andy]

PT Barnum had Scuba divers in mind when he mentioned theres a sucker born every minute... what say you all?

lol...

ah... yeah... i think "someone" is living proof of that

 

[stevetim]

Certification is perfectly useless in the charter boat scenario you describe but it's a perfect example of one of the problems in recreational diving. Everyone gets certified and wants to be whisked off on a charter boat because someone said they could. Yet they have little or no real experience. Your problems in that situation began before you left the dock by not properly assessing the risk. Just because someone is certified does not mean they will be able to perform when the real deal happens. I don't even believe that it really decreases the risk. An open and frank assesment of eachothers skills along with a couple of lower risk dives to become familiar is far more valuable than ANY C card. References don't hurt either... Too much trouble you say? Well, what's it worth to you? A C card with an unkown buddy is little more than a "warm fuzzy".

Cert. is not useless in that scenario, because you know what? I'm not going to dive with someone that "slipped through the C-Card checks". Turn it around and I think that most people on this board would think you were not very smart by diving with someone you don't know whom admittedly stated to you that they weren't certified to dive. I'm not certified to do wreck dives so I am not going to dive wrecks. If I post in this board about all the wreck diving I do without being certified to do so, how many people here are going to say, "Awesome, enjoy the sights!"? Not too many and I think I'd get blasted out of the water.

 

[adurso]

Awesome enjoy the sights. When did it become a requirement to be certified to dive a wreck?

 

[dbg40]

Awesome enjoy the sights. When did it become a requirement to be certified to dive a wreck?

OR,, dive at night, take a picture, spear fish, read a compass, read the tables, ect. ect. ect.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think part of what's missing here is an understanding of where the money you pay for a class goes. In most instances only about $20 goes directly to the certification agency.

If you pay $200 for a basic open water class then it might be broken down as follows:

$20 agency/certification fee (this part goes to NAUI/PADI/etc)
$70 instructor fee (paying the guy for his time, fuel, personal insurance, etc)
$60 pool rental (here it's $60/hr pool rental, 6 students for 6 hours = $60/student)
$50 books/videos/tables

Instructor insurance runs $400-$900 / year, and annual instructor dues typically run $100-300 / year depending on the agency. These are typically paid for by the instructor out of the $70/student.

I teach scuba diving because I enjoy it. If I didn't make a penny on it I'd still do it. I teach 4 or 5 classes a year and really enjoy the new dive buddies I meet.

Back to the subject at hand - my point is that by circumventing the agency you're really only saving $20 per certification plus a portion of the annual instructor dues (that the instructor pays out of their $70/student or whatever).

In exchange for that $20-$30 / class you get an instructor that has a quality control program watching him making sure he actually knows what he's doing and isn't endangering you, and a card that is (hopefully) universally recognized with no hassles.

This doesn't tell the whole story. Lets take one specific agency that I'll skip naming. They sell the books which are required. They collect membership dues from the instructor, the shop and resorts who wish to be retail members of the agency. They even sell the written training standards (and they aren't cheap). So, yes they only charge a few bucks to process the certification but they make much more than that on the certification.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This doesn't tell the whole story. Lets take one specific agency that I'll skip naming. They sell the books which are required. They collect membership dues from the instructor, the shop and resorts who wish to be retail members of the agency. They even sell the written training standards (and they aren't cheap). So, yes they only charge a few bucks to process the certification but they make much more than that on the certification.

That applies to more than one agency ... even to the ones who claim they are "not for profit" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)