docmartin:
I admire your mind.
The great big, all-inclusive Leisure Pro note
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I admire your mind.
I have purchased non-life support gear from LP and have not had any problems. I believe this is because I knew exactly what I wanted before hand and order that item. If you are not sure what you want or need, the best place to go is your LDS. Yes you will pay more, but you get hands on service.
I also only purchase life-support gear from my LDS. When you need it serviced, the LDS does it. LP does not. If there is an issue, I like to be standing in front of the people that sold it to me. You will be surprised how much that helps. Also if you establish a relationship with your LDS shop, they are more likely to give you breaks on either purchases or services. And they are likely to let you try gear before you buy it or at least let you exchange it for something else. If you dont like the LDS you are going to, then find another one.
Buyers beware. Do your homework first.
I also only purchase life-support gear from my LDS. When you need it serviced, the LDS does it. LP does not. If there is an issue, I like to be standing in front of the people that sold it to me. You will be surprised how much that helps. Also if you establish a relationship with your LDS shop, they are more likely to give you breaks on either purchases or services. And they are likely to let you try gear before you buy it or at least let you exchange it for something else. If you dont like the LDS you are going to, then find another one.
Buyers beware. Do your homework first.
There was another thread similar to this recently on a newbie buying a mask at LP and an LDS, although i have my gripe with LP, i will tell you what my LDS's do with/for me. Apart from the above on tanks from one LDS and general discounts on purchasing packages from both LDS's, the first LDS (the one with the tanks) also gives me rebates ($ for $) on rentals i make from them. So far (at $10 a shot for BC and reg each) i have put up a reasonable amount towards my future purchases - from my last discussion with them about buying gear i will get over $200 knocked off the price - just for renting gear, plus 15% off msrp on top of that - much cheaper than i can get it thru LP!! If you can work with the LDS's and ask them (they actually told me of these advantages - pro-active) they may just deliver, so you can forget the online stores and also see them IF something goes awry, or servicing etc.
docmartin
Contributor
lp does service what they sell. i have had several regs serviced there. turnaround time is a little long.
cyklon_300
Contributor
To date I've ordered three masks, one set fins, hoses, Vyper, compass, uw camera, and some other misc items...zero problems with any of the transactions.
Good prices, prompt shipping.
It's an acceptable shopping option for me, especially when the local shops like to price most of their wares at MSRP, and then get all squinty-eyed when you even suggest a discount after multiple purchases. Or throw out the famous line of 'it's not in stock, but we can order it for you.'
I can order it for myself online...
ps: do the heads ever go on sale?
Good prices, prompt shipping.
It's an acceptable shopping option for me, especially when the local shops like to price most of their wares at MSRP, and then get all squinty-eyed when you even suggest a discount after multiple purchases. Or throw out the famous line of 'it's not in stock, but we can order it for you.'
I can order it for myself online...
ps: do the heads ever go on sale?
Arnaud
Contributor
I buy from 3 LDS and have never had a problem (and they usually will match LP's prices). If they don't carry what I want, I buy from LP or Scubastore. I have never had a problem either.
What you guys call "gray market" in the States is just called whole sellers in Europe, i.e. authorized wholesale dealers with greater buying power (i.e., lower prices) than one small US LDS ordering directly from the manufacturer. This is how LP gets most of their stuff. This is also what makes any European LDS far more competitive than any US LDS.
What you guys call "gray market" in the States is just called whole sellers in Europe, i.e. authorized wholesale dealers with greater buying power (i.e., lower prices) than one small US LDS ordering directly from the manufacturer. This is how LP gets most of their stuff. This is also what makes any European LDS far more competitive than any US LDS.
FIXXERVI6
Contributor
I buy from LDS 95% of the time.
I purchased from LP one time, I was OK with their service and would make the same purchase again.
the LDS that I work with are great about giving me good prices, a few times the prices were better than LP and I'm willing to pay more at a LDS, but, when the difference in price exceeds a few hundred bucks, I go LP.
You can't make everyone happy, no company or LDS on earth has 100% customer satisfaction.
I prefer LDS, but I'm not rich, so I go where the best deal takes me.
I purchased from LP one time, I was OK with their service and would make the same purchase again.
the LDS that I work with are great about giving me good prices, a few times the prices were better than LP and I'm willing to pay more at a LDS, but, when the difference in price exceeds a few hundred bucks, I go LP.
You can't make everyone happy, no company or LDS on earth has 100% customer satisfaction.
I prefer LDS, but I'm not rich, so I go where the best deal takes me.
Randy43068
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MikeFerrara:
Lots of mail order places that I use eat the shipping cost on returns. Lands' End does, and so do quite a few mail order gun parts suppliers. If it's their mistake, they eat the shipping cost. Or they should. Anytime one orders something sight-unseen it's a crap shoot of sorts. Pay your money, take your chances.
In the LP incident mentioned, and it were me, I'd expect the sales guy to bend over backwards for my business. If they dont Ill shop someplace else. If people in business dont understand that concept, perhaps they should look for other work.
Randy
Wendigo
Registered
I don't see why everyone is so loyal to LDS's. They won't even match other regional shops in my area, much less LP's prices.
I have owned a business, it was viable because we were competitive with our pricing and services. That lack of cooperation combined with some jacka** in the shop telling why their gear is so great compared to what I use, just pisses me off more. I have dove and taught enough SCUBA to know what I like and what is best for me. I dont need someone trying to sell me something out his shop because there is a higher profit margin for them.
Teaching through the YMCA, we dont endorse any LDS or net business such as LP since we dont make anything either way. However, we do list those LDSs that don't harass our students into buying frivolous crap that just makes them a less safe diver. LP doesnt push you to buy unnecessary junk that you dont need.
By the way, I have $3300 worth of reciepts sitting in front of me right now from LP, and only had 1 return. That was partially my fault, but they were very friendly giving me the RMA # and shipping issues are something that you should take into consideration when doing business on the net.
LP bashing gets really old on the board. Dont like LP? Use your LDS and pay 50% or more for what I get from LP and dont grumble about it.
I have owned a business, it was viable because we were competitive with our pricing and services. That lack of cooperation combined with some jacka** in the shop telling why their gear is so great compared to what I use, just pisses me off more. I have dove and taught enough SCUBA to know what I like and what is best for me. I dont need someone trying to sell me something out his shop because there is a higher profit margin for them.
Teaching through the YMCA, we dont endorse any LDS or net business such as LP since we dont make anything either way. However, we do list those LDSs that don't harass our students into buying frivolous crap that just makes them a less safe diver. LP doesnt push you to buy unnecessary junk that you dont need.
By the way, I have $3300 worth of reciepts sitting in front of me right now from LP, and only had 1 return. That was partially my fault, but they were very friendly giving me the RMA # and shipping issues are something that you should take into consideration when doing business on the net.
LP bashing gets really old on the board. Dont like LP? Use your LDS and pay 50% or more for what I get from LP and dont grumble about it.
DivePartner1
Contributor
Arnaud:
From what I read in postings, what LDS's are complaining about isn't a gray market--it's more of tolerance of breaches of wholesale agreements that aren't being enforced. They're complaining that someone is selling merchandies to web-merchants in violation of their wholesaler/retailer sales agreement. If true, the wholesalers could put a stop to this with civil suit and a few well placed subpoenas using the American's over-reaching third party discovery rules. If I were a retailer, I'd have to wonder why they haven't.
I don't know about Europe, but my understanding is that 'gray market' refers to the legal purchase off-shore of items that would cost more if purchased in the US--even after paying import duties. Customs has been dealing with this in recent year with delays of many, many months in approving imports of cars US citizens buy while living overseas. (It's not just the Americans. I forfeited the 'bond' I had to post for a US-registered car that was totalled while I was a Canadian resident of US citizenship, but that's another story.) Also, try to get warranty service in the US on, say, a Seiko you bought in St. Maarten and you'll run into another downside to the cost 'savings.'
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