To go to doubles or not.

[ScubaFeenD]

So I am a relatively new diver, and recently I have been getting involved in communities of highly skilled divers. I am taking a lot of training, and the way to go seems to be doubles tank setups. I have talked to some mentors privately and gotten some great advice, but I want to see what the community on SB thinks about going to doubles. They seem to serve my diving quite well. Since they have larger gas volume I can do two boat dives without needing to change my rig between dives, they will give me greater stability, and in my opinion are easier to quickly set up once everything is just right. They are, however, more dangerous in my mind due to events such as a manifold failure or a "roll off" which i still cant picture in my mind. So, my questions are:

How soon is too soon? I only have 30 dives under my belt, am I missing out on learning necessary skills and comfort if I go to doubles now? If you went to doubles early and could do things over again, would you stay in a single tank for awhile?

Before anyone flames me for going to double without training please realize that I would not go into this setup without comprehensive training in valve drills and practice in controlled environments becoming solid with my skills. Ive learned alot from you all on here, and I look forward to all of your insight.

Thanks!

 

[spectrum]

I'd like to hear more about the dives you are making with the mentors before I raise a red flag.

My initial impression is that you may be getting in over your head and lack independent diving experience. This is based on <50 dives, lots of training and time with mentors. Avoiding a cylinder change is not cause.

If you're in the market for cylinders getting a pair suitable for future doubles would be clever.

Disclaimer: I have not gone to doubles.

Pete

 

[gsk3]

For me (in all of my one day of diving doubles glory), wanting to go doubles was about redundancy. The dive boats around here all want you to have either a pony or doubles. I figured I might as well learn doubles, since they are more stable and more flexible, and a pony seemed kind of kludgy.

 

[tstormdiver]

For me, transitioning into doubles was not smooth at all. It was literally like learning to dive all over again,...... & that was after I was up to about 150 dives. It took me almost a year to get to the point a was decently comfortable with, & could control them, not hem control me. For some people, they transition over onto doubles with no problems. Being female, the weight of them (LP85's) was an issue for me until I got used to them. Then there was the negative buoyancy of the cylinders to contend with- My first dive in them, they sent me down to the bottom of the quarry at 95 ft in less than a minute. I made a nice little mushroom cloud on the bottom. Sacred the bejeezers out of me. I was in no way prepared for how negatively buoyant they were & when I let the air out of my wings, I did so thinking like a recreational diver (all the air out of the bladder). The gents I was diving with were relatively new with doubles themselves, so I got no warning about that. After that, I practiced in shallow waters with them for months. An accomplished tech diver then took me under his wing & helped me smooth & trim out & learn to better balance them on my back. That was about 2 yrs ago. Now I dive LP108's with no problems. I took me practice, patience & perseverance to master them. I am in no way saying that you will have these problems, but you need to have instructors/ mentors that understand these & other potential issues & can help you deal with them, if the should arise. Something else to consider, is that the volume of gas offered with doubles can be enough to get you into decompression. Is that a way you want or may want to go with your diving? If so, I would highly suggest training to do such diving. Also, is the sheer weight of the cylinders worth the reduced effort of not having to switch out cylinders? These are just a few things to consider before making a decision about diving them.

 

[Scott L]

Only until you have exhausted shallower dives in your area would I personally gravitate to doubles. They basically only exist to dive deeper which you should not be doing now anyway. They are far less streamline than single rigs, etc., etc.

I would progress by taking fundies in a single rig this year then next summer work on doubles tech pass. Just my 2 psi worth..

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I'd like to hear more about the dives you are making with the mentors before I raise a red flag.

My initial impression is that you may be getting in over your head and lack independent diving experience. This is based on <50 dives, lots of training and time with mentors. Avoiding a cylinder change is not cause.

If you're in the market for cylinders getting a pair suitable for future doubles would be clever.

Disclaimer: I have not gone to doubles.

Pete

Your right, avoiding a cylinder change is not a really good reason, and it wouldn't be anywhere near my primary reason for going to doubles. I am taking an intro to tech course primarily as a primer for another course I am taking, and the intro to tech will most certainly be in doubles. I am less worried about getting the right training ( i am certain my instructors are the best around, so I dont worry about that) I am just worried that i am missing out on learning things I should learn while in single tanks. For instance, I imagine honing my skills in a single tank rig would be a good idea; sort of paying my dues.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

Only until you have exhausted shallower dives in your area would I personally gravitate to doubles. They basically only exist to dive deeper which you should not be doing now anyway. They are far less streamline than single rigs, etc., etc.

I would progress by taking fundies in a single rig this year then next summer work on doubles tech pass. Just my 2 psi worth..

Yeah, i fully subscribe to the idea of exhausting all the potential diving in the area using the most basic gear and moving up. However, living in the northeast makes that limitation more interesting, because many of the dives are much deeper and the large gas supply is useful for maximizing no decompression time at depth.

Its not that I want to jump out of my league, but the shallower dives are just less accessible here.

Your advice for taking fundies in a single tank is great though. Its the same thing Bob told me. Thanks for your 2psi (ill take all the bottom time i can get )

 

[elan]

Only until you have exhausted shallower dives in your area would I personally gravitate to doubles. They basically only exist to dive deeper which you should not be doing now anyway.

In Florida may be that's the only reason, in places where the water is not always in the 70s range they also exist as they provide redundancy and they are way better streamlined and balanced than a single tank with pony


to the OP I would say go for it, just pick-up the right set for you, talk to people who dive doubles and close to your body composition and see what they dive. I regret spending money on ponies and not switching to doubles earlier (I switched at 50 dive mark)

Just learn how to operate the manifold or they will just become a big single tank.

 

[Paladin]

I recently started diving doubles and the thing that got me right from the start is the weight. Those things are heavy! They're heavy on land and heavy in the water. I dive twin steel 72s and one thing I learned real quick was that I needed to shave 6 to 8 pounds off my weight belt. With a 3mm wetsuit and horsecollar BC, I usually use 14 pounds with a single 72 and 16 pounds with a single eighty. The best weight with my double is about 8 pounds, 10 if I'm diving in a river current. Another thing I quickly learned is that doubles like to turn turtle. All that weight, even underwater, wants to pull you over until you are on your back, gazing at the surface. This might not be a problem with a BP/W setup, but it is a nuisance with my kind of rig. A little while back, I was diving the Ohio River and was on the surface with my horsecollar half inflated for the swim back to the boat. A boat came by and the wake flipped me over, onto my back. Those heavy doubles tried to pull me to the bottom while the BC tried to keep me floating face up. I was like a turtle on its back. All I could do was flail helplessly. My buddy couldn't help me because he was laughing too hard. I finally deflated the BC and sank back down where I could regain control.

I really don't need doubles for the kind of diving I usually do, I just think they're cool coupled to my USD DA Aqua-Master double hose regulator! (Ala Mike Nelson!) I'll eventually master the technique and I might use them when I go for my AOW this fall.

 

[elan]

I recently started diving doubles and the thing that got me right from the start is the weight. Those things are heavy! They're heavy on land and heavy in the water. I dive twin steel 72s and one thing I learned real quick was that I needed to shave 6 to 8 pounds off my weight belt. With a 3mm wetsuit and horsecollar BC,I usually use 14 pounds with a single 72 and 16 pounds with a single eighty. The best weight with my double is about 8 pounds. Another thing I quickly learned is that doubles like to turn turtle. All that weight, even underwater, wants to pull you over until you are on your back, gazing at the surface. This might not be a problem with a BP/W setup, but it is a nuisance with my kind of rig. A little while back, I was diving the Ohio River and was on the surface with my horsecollar half inflated for the swim back to the boat. A boat came by and the wake flipped me over, onto my back. Those heavy doubles tried to pull me to the bottom while the BC tried to keep me floating face up. I was like a turtle on its back. All I could do was flail helplessly. My buddy couldn't help me because he was laughing too hard. I finally deflated the BC and sank back down where I could regain control.

I really don't need doubles for the kind of diving I usually do, I just think they're cool coupled to my USD DA Aqua-Master double hose regulator! (Ala Mike Nelson!) I'll eventually master the technique and I might use them when I go for my AOW this fall.

I do not think the OP is talking about vintage diving It is not a problem with BP/W

Actually for some types of diving where your exposure suit is buoyant and steel tanks they weight pretty much the same as the single tank setup and a pony bottle