Training too fast?

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Another area that is sorely lacking in many OW courses is rescue skills. This has also contributed to accidents and fatalities when new divers have been unable to perform self rescue or assist another diver. We still have these skills in our OW class and I include some rescue skills in every class I teach including my UW Nav and AOW courses as well as dry suit. I also like that it is not necessary under our system for a diver to have AOW before rescue. If anything, I want to see those who have not had rescue skills in the OW class get a few dives and then do rescue BEFORE any AOW course they take.
 
Thanks Denon. I am going through the PADI system and agree with your criticism. I don't have anyone else to compare to but I feel my instructor is top notch, especially when it came to providing advanced tips beyond what "the theme" of the dive was without overwhelming me. I know he's a business man and needs to sell courses but at least i feel im getting my monies worth and not just paying for a cert card. After reading all of your great comments, I'm confident in my plan. Now I just have to find a way to pay for it all! Thanks again guys.
 
Jim, I agree with your assessment of more rescue skills being needed.

Perhaps another topic, but is OW not complete or are instructors/schools just not teaching well enough?

It seems to me schools want to fit their courses into compact sessions. Market may drive this also. Who wants to take two weeks to get certified when XYZ Scuba offers it in one weekend.

The more students in XYZ's class means a bigger return on that class, though at the potential expense of a student's learning experience. Even if a student quits mid class, they've got the money with a no refund on training policy.

Some dive shops have associated dive clubs and promote them offering a new diver opportunities to get out there and dive.

To me AOW had little to do with "advanced" and more to do with adventure. I assumed I was paying for instruction not exposure. AOW is not preparing me for Rescue, so I don't understand why it is a required cert prior to Rescue.

I have not heard negative comments about Rescue. In fact, I have only heard that it is a must take course.



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Thanks Denon. I am going through the PADI system and agree with your criticism. I don't have anyone else to compare to but I feel my instructor is top notch, especially when it came to providing advanced tips beyond what "the theme" of the dive was without overwhelming me. I know he's a business man and needs to sell courses but at least i feel im getting my monies worth and not just paying for a cert card. After reading all of your great comments, I'm confident in my plan. Now I just have to find a way to pay for it all! Thanks again guys.

I think that is very important. If you feel you are learning from the instructor and what you're being taught is done in a safe manner, then the value of his time and experience is there.

Enjoy it!



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Also wanted to pass on a good point that Burhan made in an email. He pointed out the conditions where i live and will be doing most of my diving is a factor. I'm in Ventura, California and while I'm fortunate to live so close to the channel islands, the conditions here aren't as easy as the Bahamas. It may be paradise compared to where some of you vets dive but he's right, it does play a part in how much training and confidence I need to be safe in these conditions.
 
I once got into an argument with a good friend of mine and co-worker who used to be a course director about back to back OW and AOW courses. After 12 years of flying instruction of some sort, part of me tend to favor a philosophy of learn some knowledge and skills then build upon it to master them as much as you can then learn new more skills and knowledge and repeat the process. My reasoning was as follow...you can only learn and retain so much but experience and familiarity you gain eventually become second nature. However, in order to do that you need to have solid buddies who will give you proper exposure within your certification level. So in the aviation field a newly qualified co-pilot (on certain helo and fixed-wing platforms) will then be flying with more experience aircraft captains. In diving, a newly or less experienced diver should be able to dive with more experience divers. However, the big difference between the two is the fact that it is part of the terms of reference of an aircraft captain to develop the co-pilots they end-up with while this is not necessarily the case with divers who all happen to have their very own reason for diving.

His point was...if you are not going to be diving due to lack of buddies or if the buddies are not so good divers to start with or they are the type who will improvise themselves as quasi instructors and get you and them in situation which greatly exceeds your certification level and sometimes theirs then it is preferable to dive ...with an instructor through Con Ed. I can certainly not fault him for that.

AOW...by the time I did my course, I had already done deep, drift, night, boat and very limited vis dives and was already nitrox qualified...as well as being well versed in the use of a compass dives. So I did not find the course too challenging with the exception of night navigation which requires you to stabilize your buoyancy, navigate using the compass, calculate distance, monitor depth, air pressure, NDL, etc...truely a multi task dive that got you to split the various tasks between the two divers in the team. The eye opener was to see most folks on the course with very little dives under their belt and some of them having a hard time doing any type of hovering . Watching them (until they silted out the area) attempting to go through the submerged hoop circuit was very interesting.

Having said that, my advise would be to try to gain some experience and develop the newly learned skills by doing some dives within your comfort and experience level if you do have solid diving buddies that you can go and dive with. If that is not possible, then the next best thing is ConEd for the time being but, at some point in time, you will have to do some dives.
 
His point was...if you are not going to be diving due to lack of buddies or if the buddies are not so good divers to start with or they are the type who will improvise themselves as quasi instructors and get you and them in situation which greatly exceeds your certification level and sometimes theirs then it is preferable to dive ...with an instructor through Con Ed. I can certainly not fault him for that.

That is why I opted for AOW. Unfortunately, I would have been better off with more practice with a buddy.

The OP seems to have good instruction so his mileage may vary. It is all situation dependent.

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Also wanted to pass on a good point that Burhan made in an email. He pointed out the conditions where i live and will be doing most of my diving is a factor. I'm in Ventura, California and while I'm fortunate to live so close to the channel islands, the conditions here aren't as easy as the Bahamas. It may be paradise compared to where some of you vets dive but he's right, it does play a part in how much training and confidence I need to be safe in these conditions.

One of the benefits of an AOW class is that it opens up new venues for the diver to explore. One of the drawbacks of an AOW class is that it opens up new venues for the diver to explore. Deeper dives ... or even shallow dives in more challenging conditions ... will inevitably mean that you will use up your air supply faster than you did while diving in less challenging conditions. Given where you dive, one thing to be aware of is how easy it is to get yourself into trouble with respect to air management ... primarily because new AOW grads are often surprised by how quickly they go through their air supply when they start doing deeper dives ... or even diving shallower in surge or current, of which there are plenty where you live.

During your training, ask your instructor the following questions ...

- How do I know that I'm bringing enough air to do the dive I'm planning to do?
- How do I know when it's time to turn around, or begin my ascent?
- How do I know that I have enough air remaining in my tank to make a safe ascent if I should have to share it with my buddy?

In order to safely do the sorts of dives that you'll want to do once you're AOW certified, you'll need to be able to answer those questions confidently.

One of the primary reasons that newer divers get into trouble is that they lose track of how much air they have at a critical time, and discover later that they have less than they should to safely complete the dive. Out-of-air isn't the only risk at that point ... stress is a significant issue, because it takes your mind off what you should be thinking about and causes you to react, rather than think rationally about what to do about it.

My biggest complaint about taking AOW too soon is that it opens the door for divers to put themselves in a situation they aren't yet prepared to get themselves out of ... this is particularly the case on deeper dives.

I won't suggest that you hold off taking the class ... that is an individual decision that each diver has to make for themselves. I will say that getting the AOW card too soon tends to give divers an incentive to push themselves beyond their actual qualifications ... and this is something you need to be aware of and try not to do. The majority of divers who push for AOW soon after OW do so because they want to do deeper dives. Be aware that problems are magnified by depth ... and that the deeper you go the more serious the potential consequences of those problems become. Take your training at whatever pace you wish ... but take your diving at a pace that allows you to become comfortable with your skills, and confident in your ability to resolve issues that may occur underwater. There is only one true emergency underwater ... and that is running out of air. As long as you have air to breathe, everything else is just a problem that can be resolved with a calm head and adequate skill and knowledge to find a solution. AOW won't teach you those things ... only time in the water will.

Whatever training path you decide, give yourself that time ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
One more thing . . . if you're in Southern California, you're in luck. There are quite a few very experienced SoCal divers here, and I'm sure if you post that you are looking for a dive buddy for a novice, you will find one. No matter how many basic classes you take, there is great value in diving with someone who knows the sites and conditions and can pass on the little tips that make a difference. Having a good mentor is a fantastic way to improve your diving.
 
I am all for continuing your formal dive training, but there is no substitute for time in the water to improve your skills and competence as a diver. That needs to be coupled with classes. The order is not so important as that you remain an active diver, learnign from every dive, and grow your skills, not just your pile of cert. cards. Peak performance buoyancy is a good class anytime, and so is nitrox. No issue there. Underwater video or photography, and some other specialties are much more valuable once you have enough dive time to be able to focus on ancillary activities in addition to you diving.
DivemasterDennis
 
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