Ultima Dry Glove System question

[MaxBottomtime]

Two more dives today on the 720s and still perfect. Who says you can't learn anything on the internet?

 

[Deep South Divers]

Temp? Liners or not?

 

[MaxBottomtime]

52° with liners. I have to install a new ladder bracket tomorrow so I'll try them without liners.

 

[a878bob]

Yep, that way I know it’s not my seals or rings. So I’m left with the gloves. If it still leaks ??????

It’s still cold here for the next two months, I gotta get this right.

 

[Storker]

Liners or not?

As some may - or may not - know, I live in rather frigid climate. We rarely see water temps above 15C in my tiny part of the world, and typical winter conditions are 3-6C water. I'd never even consider diving without liners if I'm using drygloves. For once, I'd probably be better off in my 6.5mm 3-finger wetgloves than in thin drygloves without some insulation. For the second, if I'm in the cold and there's a nonzero risk of getting thoroughly wet, I'd never combine the barrier layer and the thermal layer in one garment. If I get soaked, I can swap the thermal layer, and the barrier layer keeps so little moisture that it's quite bearable if I can get a dry thermal layer. And drying the stuff becomes much easier if I have a removable liner instead of some kind of insulating layer inside the gloves.

Also, I'd never consider removing my wrist seals. I've had a couple of semi-serious glove - or rather glove ring - leaks, and I've been able to get the dive done even if I sometimes have surfaced with one of my arms pretty well drenched. And that was just the water seeping in through the small opening caused by the piece of bungee I stick between the seal and my wrist. I really don't want to imagine how it'd been if I'd removed my wrist seals.

Just my 0.02 bar.

 

[Deep South Divers]

Yep, that way I know it’s not my seals or rings. So I’m left with the gloves. If it still leaks ??????

It’s still cold here for the next two months, I gotta get this right.

Cool.

Yep - if it still leaks, it's an o-ring, a hole in the fabric, or maybe the seal between the hard and soft suit-side rings.

 

[Deep South Divers]

As some may - or may not - know, I live in rather frigid climate. We rarely see water temps above 15C in my tiny part of the world, and typical winter conditions are 3-6C water. I'd never even consider diving without liners if I'm using drygloves. For once, I'd probably be better off in my 6.5mm 3-finger wetgloves than in thin drygloves without some insulation.

Thanks for the opposing view... We all learn when a good discussion comes up.

In this video I am diving 3-6°C water and am quite comfortable in SHOWA 720s with no liners. These are made of nitrile, which is quite rugged and warm on its own. You CAN use a liner with the gloves if you choose... But so far I haven't felt the need, even on the coldest days.


Compare them to latex gloves... Which would need a liner for any temperature below about 16°C.

For the second, if I'm in the cold and there's a nonzero risk of getting thoroughly wet, I'd never combine the barrier layer and the thermal layer in one garment. If I get soaked, I can swap the thermal layer, and the barrier layer keeps so little moisture that it's quite bearable if I can get a dry thermal layer. And drying the stuff becomes much easier if I have a removable liner instead of some kind of insulating layer inside the gloves.

I agree with you on this point... I also find that "furry" gloves get dirty from perspiration and can't really be cleaned. With a low-pile glove, this isn't really a problem. With a liner, the liner can be thrown in the washing machine. I'd much rather have separate parts.

That said, I understand the attraction to the simplicity of a furry glove, especially if the glove is trustable... Which isn't the case with a latex glove. But both nitrile (720s) and polyurethane (281s and 282s) really are that solid.

Also, I'd never consider removing my wrist seals. I've had a couple of semi-serious glove - or rather glove ring - leaks, and I've been able to get the dive done even if I sometimes have surfaced with one of my arms pretty well drenched. And that was just the water seeping in through the small opening caused by the piece of bungee I stick between the seal and my wrist. I really don't want to imagine how it'd been if I'd removed my wrist seals.

It probably would have been no worse - since a glove leak rarely allows any more volume than the bungee under the wrist seal... But I get your point. The concern of a flooded suit through an untrustworthy dryglove is real and justified. Luckily, all of the setups we're using here can be operated with or without wrist seals.

Personally I found that the fat o-rings and the positive click of the Ultima dryglove rings were very trustable. I work in a brutal commercial diving environment, and have seen just a single, slight leak (sand in the o-ring) in about 350 dives... While in the mud and muck, scraping barnacles and oysters and using an underwater chainsaw. They're solid as heck.

The wrist seals, on the other hand, never ONCE gave me a dry dive when used without a dryglove. Here's why:


Those channels in my wrists didn't just make a small, annoying leak... They made for a soaked-to-the-bone dive if I was submerged any longer than 20 minutes. It was even worse if I was operating a saw or scraping tool.

...Which is why I've learned to rely so heavily on drygloves and not at all on wrist seals for sealing.

...Which is why we've moved from latex to PVC to nitrile gloves... And maybe to PU gloves... In this discussion.

...So what's your setup? SiTech dryglove rings? KUBIs? Latex gloves? Something else?

Just my 0.02 bar.

Thanks for it. The more viewpoints we have, the better this discussion is.

 

[Storker]

...So what's your setup? SiTech dryglove rings? KUBIs? Latex gloves? Something else?

As mentioned before, I use the thin Showa 620s for the dexterity (I'm an UW photog)¹. I prefer having a rather thin barrier layer, since it's more flexible and gives better dexterity and sensitivity. I had the oval Antares rings, but was never able to like them. Too many leaks, too cumbersome to doff and don. Last fall, I switched to Ultima since they fit directly into the rings glued into my suit. Haven't had many dives on them, so the jury's still out.

¹ That the color fits very well with the orange color accents on my Waterproof D7 is, of course, not at all relevant...

 

[Deep South Divers]

Ah, I gotcha. Cool.

Well... The move to the Ultima rings was definitely a good call. I did the same thing for the same reason... Because they fit directly onto my SiTech QCS ovals that were already on my suit.

...But the setup was so great that I ended up ordering my next two drysuits with oval rings just so I could use Ultima rings.

The 660s are a good choice for photographers... But you'll get a softer, stretchier, and warmer glove in the 720. In fact, you might find them so much warmer that you may choose to forgo the liner - but if you don't, that works too.

The 720 is also tougher... Especially with regard to puncture resistance. This will probably give you a lot more confidence about their waterproofness.

There's also the obvious color difference... I prefer the dark blue of the 720 over the orange of the 620, but that's a personal preference kind of thing.

Call SHOWA in Georgia and ask them for a set or two of 720s... They'll send them to you for free - and you can test them yourself.

Think about how much dexterity you'd pick up by reducing your need for liners!

 

[Storker]

The 660s are a good choice for photographers... But you'll get a softer, stretchier, and warmer glove in the 720. In fact, you might find them so much warmer that you may choose to forgo the liner - but if you don't, that works too.

The 720 is also tougher... Especially with regard to puncture resistance. This will probably give you a lot more confidence about their waterproofness.

There's also the obvious color difference... I prefer the dark blue of the 720 over the orange of the 620, but that's a personal preference kind of thing.

Well, I've seriously considered trying out the nitrile 720s. I just have to get over my vanity and live with yet another color on my gear

Call SHOWA and ask them for a set or two of 720s... They'll send them to y9u for free - and you can test them yourself

It seems as if there's at least one brick and mortar store selling Showa gloves in my town, so I think I'll just pop by

Think about how much dexterity you'd pick up by reducing your need for liners.

OTOH, what about the stink after about two dozen dives? And since I'm heck-bent on using wool whenever I risk getting damp or wet, I think I prefer thin knitted wool gloves as liners.