Weighting,Stupid Question !!!!

[NOVIZWHIZ]

So just for arguements sake...let's say you " find a need" to quickly ditch....what are you going to do? If for some reason you find yourself in a situation where you MUST ditch to get to the surface - reg failure for example...or you begin to lose consciousness for any of a number of reasons....your belt hangs on your strap, you can't make the surface....you die. I don't understand why the resistance to cover all the bases. You are assuming your reg will not fail or that you will not suddenly have some kind of medical problem pop up that you weren't aware of......people pass out, have epilectic seizures, heart attacks....all the time. A lot of these can and sometimes do come on with no warning. I for one am not willing to risk my life on a presumption that I can't think of a reason to ditch.

and "generally speaking" the tank being your only overweight is not the way I dive...I don't need to do decomp stops, I overweight slightly because of the kind of diving I do. "Generally speaking" is not a good rule to follow when your life is the price you pay if something goes wrong. Let's say you have to do a decomp stop...you're seperated from your partner for some reason, your reg fails...are you going to hold your breath for your decomp stop?

 

[Soggy]

So just for arguements sake...let's say you " find a need" to quickly ditch....what are you going to do? If for some reason you find yourself in a situation where you MUST ditch to get to the surface - reg failure for example...

A reg failure is no reason to ditch weight. I have a buddy, right?

or you begin to lose consciousness for any of a number of reasons....

Oh, great, now I just embolized. No thanks, I'll signal my buddy (apparently I'm losing consciousness and have enough time and presence of mind to ditch my weightbelt!?) and have him help me out.

your belt hangs on your strap, you can't make the surface....you die.

If you *really* need to ditch that weight, you can remove the crotch strap first.

Let's say you have to do a decomp stop...you're seperated from your partner for some reason, your reg fails...are you going to hold your breath for your decomp stop?

If I'm doing deco, I have doubles and thus a redundant tank and regulator setup. Still no need for ditching. Besides, I don't even wear a weight belt when I'm diving doubles...so there isn't anything to ditch.

Problems underwater need to be solved underwater. 99% of potential problems underwater can be solved by thinking the problem through before you even get in the water.

 

[detroit diver]

Novizwhiz,

You responded in a DIR forum. One of the primary tenents of DIR is team diving. Thats brings multiple points of redundancy, and therefore no real reason to ditch weight.

Without starting a flame fest, was your friend solo diving, or was he with a buddy? If with a buddy, where was the buddy during the emergency? You've given us part of a story, and I'm curious what happened. My condolences to you and his family.

 

[Dan Gibson]

I don't rely on general rules. I use what is appropriate for the type of dive. I will say again, "in general", a single tanks diver should not have to ditch weight. If one does decide to make it ditachable, it should be equal to the weight of the gas in the tank. It can be in the form of a weight belt or things like can lights. Considering a single 80 has about 6 lbs of gas (air or nitrox), one should be able to swim that up with no problem at the beginning of the dive. There won't be any excessive deco to do, so swimming the rig up is not likely to cause a problem. The separated buddy or reg failure arguments just aren't an issue for my dive buddies and myself. We stay togehter, know how to handle failures and conduct predive checks so we don't hop in the water with anything out of place or non functioning gear.

"Generally speaking" is not a good rule to follow when your life is the price you pay if something goes wrong.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

I've been diving the black water rivers here in SC for 30 years. We dive for fossils, Colonial and Civil War relics. Viz is limited, if any at all, depths at 30-45 ft. Partner diving is not an easy things to do - hand and light signals are impossible. In most cases, you cannot see your gas guage. Your partner can be literally inches away and you cannot let him know if you have a problem. Why waste time if you get in trouble..flip the belt buckle and up you go...These rivers are high current and as I said before, no viz. The object is to get to the bottom and maintain contact with the bottom, the reason for the overweighting. My friend had bagged 20 or 25 lbs of shark teeth, he had some kind of catastrophic failure...don't know if it was equipment, medical, maybe just ran out of air..... and was not able to complely release his weights and goody bag. I'm only expressing my opinion concerning the type of diving I do....and all I'm trying to say is that each diver should consider they type of diving they do and work out what's best for them in that particular situation. Another question - if you are wearing a belt under a crotch strap, you're trying to get out of your gear before entering the boat (after a dive), isn't it hard to get the belt off firs? I was always taught that weights were the last thing to go on, first thing to come off...

 

[Soggy]

Fair enough, novizwhiz, just remember we are talking about DIR diving here, which is all about the team. If the dive cannot be safely done as a team, it isn't done. There is no such thing as solo DIR diving.

As far as removing the weight belt and boarding a boat....the only time I've ever had to do that is when I've had to doff my gear in the water. There isn't much point in taking off a few lbs on your waist when you're carrying several times that on your back. Most accidents happen on the surface, anyhow, so diddling around removing gear on the surface is probably more dangerous than climbing a ladder with a few lbs of weight on your belt.

The *only* time I think ditching weight is an acceptable thing to do is when dealing with an emergency on the surface in order to get as much positive buoyancy as possible.

 

[Morg_NZ]

I've been diving the black water rivers here in SC for 30 years. We dive for fossils, Colonial and Civil War relics. Viz is limited, if any at all, depths at 30-45 ft. Partner diving is not an easy things to do - hand and light signals are impossible. In most cases, you cannot see your gas guage. Your partner can be literally inches away and you cannot let him know if you have a problem. Why waste time if you get in trouble..flip the belt buckle and up you go...These rivers are high current and as I said before, no viz. The object is to get to the bottom and maintain contact with the bottom, the reason for the overweighting. My friend had bagged 20 or 25 lbs of shark teeth, he had some kind of catastrophic failure...don't know if it was equipment, medical, maybe just ran out of air..... and was not able to complely release his weights and goody bag. I'm only expressing my opinion concerning the type of diving I do....and all I'm trying to say is that each diver should consider they type of diving they do and work out what's best for them in that particular situation. Another question - if you are wearing a belt under a crotch strap, you're trying to get out of your gear before entering the boat (after a dive), isn't it hard to get the belt off firs? I was always taught that weights were the last thing to go on, first thing to come off...

Why did he have 25lbs of gear/game in his dive bag tied to himself??? as well as his weight belt{one hand release??}, surely after 25 years experiance he would have known that a lift bag was far better. I remember being told that " your bcd IS NOT to be used as a lifting device for items or game recovered whilst diving"

Sorry for your loss but surely this isn't the place where flaming is needed.............this is the DIR forum.................and all posts here relate to that theory of diving.

My original question was just that!!!!!!......a simple question with no intention of flaming or starting such debates

 

[WVMike]

The *only* time I think ditching weight is an acceptable thing to do is when dealing with an emergency on the surface in order to get as much positive buoyancy as possible.

How about worst case scenerio on the bottom, BC failure and drysuit flooding?

My fundamentals instructor brought this up to me in an adding weight discussion. His opinion was that some of the weight should be ditchable in case of above scenerio.

How much weight should you be able to swim off the bottom with no extra bouyancy help?

In my case with a single AL 80, 6 pound backplate and 6 pound STA, I might need an extra 10 to 12 pounds for a drysuit.

 

[Soggy]

How about worst case scenerio on the bottom, BC failure and drysuit flooding?

In that ridiculously unlikely scenario, I have a buddy and a liftbag, both of which could help me get of the bottom if I was unable to swim.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Assume you had a wing failure first and then a drysuit failure. A drysuit failure doesn't necessarily result in total loss of buoyancy provided by the suit. If you use the proper undergarments (i.e. thinsulate), you will be ok. Thinsulate is hydrophobic. Try and sink it sometime in the tub. It won't stay down. It traps gas between the fibers. It will retain buoyancy if it floods.

Ditchable weight doesn't have to be on a belt. It could also be in the form of a light. With a single tank, you probably won't have a hard time swimming up the rig if you are properly weighted.

How about worst case scenerio on the bottom, BC failure and drysuit flooding?

My fundamentals instructor brought this up to me in an adding weight discussion. His opinion was that some of the weight should be ditchable in case of above scenerio.

How much weight should you be able to swim off the bottom with no extra bouyancy help?

In my case with a single AL 80, 6 pound backplate and 6 pound STA, I might need an extra 10 to 12 pounds for a drysuit.