Weighting,Stupid Question !!!!

[gr8white]

A reg failure is no reason to ditch weight. I have a buddy, right?
Oh, great, now I just embolized. No thanks, I'll signal my buddy (apparently I'm losing consciousness and have enough time and presence of mind to ditch my weightbelt!?) and have him help me out. [ENDQUOTE=Soggy]

This is an incredible lack of logic. I don't care how well trained, experienced, etc you are. Accidents happen: Either through lack of thought or mechanical failure. If you began to lose conciousness underwater, for whatever reason, and had the last momentary thought to ditch and ascent before you died, you would not embolize! If you became unconcious, gas would release from your lungs. It would not be blocked. If you did not pass out, hopefully, you would exhale. I'm with you Novawiz, a situation such as this would be so life threatening that it would be your only option. Taking it away is a death sentence. I would rather spend days in chamber sessions due to a life saving rapid ascent then become the detritus that crustacean feed from that is later eaten an a $45 lobster plate special. I don't care to feed the rich that way!

As far as DIR buddy system. Theory is one thing. Reality is another. I've dove with DIR guys who, despite all the training, were off in their own world chasing lobster, 20 feet away in 30 ft vis. If you are smart, know where the theory meets the road. Accidents happen to the best of divers. Even those infinitely more experienced and trained than us. Unless you are holding hands underwater, the opportunity to lose contact exists. Ignoring the concept of a weight ditch rapid emergency ascent is just foolish.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

Thank you, sir! It amazes me some of the stuff I read on this board.

...no I have very little contact with the GUE or DIR, just a couple of local divers with one to two years of experience and A WHOLE lot of "training". Their attitudes are way over the top...NEVER fail to inform of all the things I do wrong. then there are the comments I read on this board from divers who are adamant that DIR is the Holy written word.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

Hey gr8white - I'm agreeing with you....

 

[gr8white]

In that ridiculously unlikely scenario, I have a buddy and a liftbag, both of which could help me get of the bottom if I was unable to swim.

Come on guys (and gals) this is not flaming....this a is basic democratic right to debate and I'm going at it! Come on! Lift bag for emergency? A bag can help you get off the bottom if you are in trouble and conscious, but if losing consciousness at the bottom, for whatever obscure reason, you cannot use a lift bag instead of ditching weights to save you. Ditch the weight, shoot to the top, head above water. Shoot a bag, you may lift to the top, but you are still unconscious and overweighted and your head will be underwater with the lift bag floating above you. Common sense, people. It's nice to say 99% of the problems can be solved at the top. I think the real probability is A LOT less. There are so many factors that contribute to the dangers of diving that is beyond the protection of planning and experience.

Novawiz asked a simple question asking for honest advice and it resulted in a barrage of DIR mantra. Who is doing the flaming?

 

[Soggy]

Is this a joke? I could write reason after reason, all of which I would hope I would never see, but God forbid, if the day ever came, I better be able to ditch the weight. Any diver thinking you'd never have to ditch weight and are not prepared for such a contingency is just .... well... nevermind.

Ok, name a few.

 

[Soggy]

Novawiz asked a simple question asking for honest advice and it resulted in a barrage of DIR mantra. Who is doing the flaming?

Check the forum we're in.

None of it is mantra...it's all well thought out and explained. No one said, "because GUE says so."

 

[gr8white]

Ok, name a few.

Mechanical failure of any type combined with your buddy being not as close and aware as he was trained to be, and as close as you had hoped he would be. Tell me that you were always in "emergency" contact close with your buddy on all dives...and I would challenge that you are not telling the truth.

What is the probabilty of that "failure/buddy" situation happening? I don't know. But if I logged 5000 dives over 40 years and this happened on a 65th Birthday Dive Celebration in Belize, that one time fluke would pretty much suck as a way of leaving this life. All I'm saying is, if you have worked your rig and skill to be prepared for all possible situations, why not this one? It is more likely to happen than some of the contingencies that you've studied.

Novawiz obviously had a life situation much worse than most of us have experienced. He came on this board to share advice. DIR or not, he deserves respect and an open mind. Telling him a weight ditch ascent is not a reasonable probability that needs to be considered is irresponsible. Of course you don't want to ditch weights because you freaked. But if you have a real emergency and your buddy, or you, drifted away, for whatever reason, you'd better know how to get rid to those weights quickly. Anything less is foolish planning. Saying there is no situation under which you would need to ditch weight is beyond comprehension in a philosophy that proposes being prepared for everything.

This guy is looking to DIR trained divers, possibly to become DIR himself. Nothing I have seen written on this board would encourage him to do so. THAT....is the problem with most DIR divers. Embrace those that wish to understand what you do. Don't admonish those that question you in good faith.

 

[gr8white]

Check the forum we're in.

None of it is mantra...it's all well thought out and explained. No one said, "because GUE says so."

MANTRA: commonly repeated word or phrase:


I rest my case. Ya'll are repeating the same thing rather than thinking out the probabilities of the situation. WHY are you arguing that a situation where you might have to ditch a weight in a life threatening situation is unsound?

Consider this. Perhaps you are so incredibly experienced that you, even under the most extreme emergency situation would not need to do this manuever. However, why make those less experienced doubt the need for this maneuver. Train to do this, then train to do alternate advanced maneuvers for emergency ascent. I'd rather see a less experienced diver alive, then a DIR trained doing "The Right Thing" dead, because he didn't think ditchin a weight was a viable option.

There are many non DIR divers browsing in this forum to see if DIR is right for them. THAT, dear Soggy, is why they are in this forum. Not to diss you. They are looking for guidance and they deserve it. Or perhaps, it is you, who could had learned from the experience he took the time to write about.

Let just agree to disagree. Safe Diving!

 

[SunFishSarah]

I'm putting on my crash helmet as I write this..

I'm signed up for my DIRF class next month and after reading this this thread I have a question re weight belt and where it goes.

Situation (and this may not be a realistic scenario, it's just a question that came to mind..).. Not OOA, but being tangled in fishing line or something and having to extricate yourself by way of removing your gear and weight belt. How much more difficult is having the wb under or over..


Just curious..

S

 

[WVMike]

Mer and Dan, Thanks for the pointers on the proper undergarments. Now I know what to look for there.

I think it is an excellent idea to try swimming up the weight your carrying. In the case of doubles it seems you don't have the option to ditch anyhow.

My questions are:

Have you done this?

While swimming the rig from the bottom can you stop every 10 feet for 1 minute for Deco? Or, could you do any longer Deco obligations?

Once on the surface, how long can you tred water, and or swim with all that weight?

I am asking to learn and think this thing through, I am thinking all this points to, yes I would really want well trained and focused buddys to be with me in an emergency situation.

Mike

This is where the correct undergarment comes into play. Quality thinsulate, for example, still retains much of its buoyancy when flooded. Fleece and compressable loft undergarments may not retain much, or any, buoyancy.

Also, this is why some GUE instructors advocate seeing if you can swim your doubles to the surface, mostly full, from 40', with the wing and drysuit fully deflated. Some people can swim up 104s, some cannot. In these instances, my instructor has recommended that you only be diving those steel tanks where you can *walk* home (cave, shore, etc).