What do the ToS mean to you?

[Missdirected]

Hrmmm, perhaps instead of dallying with Kim, and an issue that has been gone over ad naseum, we move on to issues that have been lying around forever (you know the ones you mods keep promising to get to)? Kim has gotten his jabs in and he is right IMO on a couple of things. That said, the board is profoundly better than it ever has been and continues to get better - we are definitely on a positive path. So instead of trying to one-up and show which mod is best at clarifying something that is only going in a circle anywho, we move on? Just saying. In case ya'all are lookin' for something to do :ne_nau:

 

[livinoz]

Hrmmm, perhaps instead of dallying with Kim, and an issue that has been gone over ad naseum, we move on to issues that have been lying around forever (you know the ones you mods keep promising to get to)? Kim has gotten his jabs in and he is right IMO on a couple of things. That said, the board is profoundly better than it ever has been and continues to get better - we are definitely on a positive path. So instead of trying to one-up and show which mod is best at clarifying something that is only going in a circle anywho, we move on? Just saying. In case ya'all are lookin' for something to do :ne_nau:

As a newbie I'm not aware of these past "issues" so why don't you enlighten me, and no doubt a few other newbies, as to what you'd like to see discussed or solved?

 

[Missdirected]

As a newbie I'm not aware of these past "issues" so why don't you enlighten me, and no doubt a few other newbies, as to what you'd like to see discussed or solved?

Nah, it would really only being going backward And IMO there is no need for that. I am quite content with the positive path the board is on, as long as it continues. Further, my issues with stickies and other things of this nature would only bore you to tears. These are issues "the mods/advisors are discussing".

Anywhoozle, I need to be off and planning a gathering of some sort.

 

[Kim]

Hrmmm, perhaps instead of dallying with Kim, and an issue that has been gone over ad naseum, we move on to issues that have been lying around forever (you know the ones you mods keep promising to get to)? Kim has gotten his jabs in and he is right IMO on a couple of things. That said, the board is profoundly better than it ever has been and continues to get better - we are definitely on a positive path. So instead of trying to one-up and show which mod is best at clarifying something that is only going in a circle anywho, we move on? Just saying. In case ya'all are lookin' for something to do :ne_nau:

It's not about "jabs". It's simply the case that this is once again a topic of debate. That suggests to me that there is still an on-going problem in this regard.

Pete has just stated that he is currently discussing the issue with his Advisers - which is great.

Anything that can be done to reduce the impression laid out in the opening post would be great - but I think that recognizing that it must be still true is important. And it must be, or people wouldn't make such posts.

I actually believe that in many cases people don't. They just get fed up and quietly leave, or post far less. That's a pity, and I miss quite a number of people who's contributions I used to enjoy.

 

[livinoz]

Okay, no worries. 'Bye.

 

[livinoz]

It's not about "jabs". It's simply the case that this is once again a topic of debate. That suggests to me that there is still an on-going problem in this regard.

Pete has just stated that he is currently discussing the issue with his Advisers - which is great.

Anything that can be done to reduce the impression laid out in the opening post would be great - but I think that recognizing that it must be still true is important. And it must be, or people wouldn't make such posts.

I actually believe that in many cases people don't. They just get fed up and quietly leave, or post far less. That's a pity, and I miss quite a number of people who's contributions I used to enjoy.

I'm reluctant to say anything more on this issue as I think I've (inadvertently) annoyed a few people. That wasn't my intention. I was also told I shouldn't speak for anyone other than myself. Okay, point already taken there. I personally think that you're possibly right; there are many people who "read" rather than "post" because of their initial perceptions, in my opinion, and that's sad in a way because they are missing out on interacting with some good people. But as in other areas of life, the loudest and sometimes ugliest voices, seem to be the ones that are heard most.

 

[Missdirected]

.....

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Livinoz,

I don't think you've annoyed anyone, with the possible exception of those who find themselves terminally irritated by life in general.

Your points are well expressed.

It is also a truism, however, that the loudest voices are not always factually correct. A misconception repeated loudly and aggressively does not become more true over time.

While everyone has an opinion and a right to express it, on matters that specifically address scuba diving, and more specifically address issues of physics or biology - not opinion - it is incumbent on the board to ensure that factual content is correct. In some cases, a diver may act on that information and it would be unfortunate if misinformation led to anyone's being injured or worse.

Dialog expressing a discussion of various opinions can be conducted without resorting to uncivil comments, and this is the ideal we try to achieve. It isn't always possible, however, I suspect that if you compare the quality and nature of the debate on ScubaBoard against that found on many other boards created as forums for other activities, you will find that the quality of debate on ScubaBoard is more civil than that often found elsewhere.

I am not saying we are perfect. But I am saying that we aim to improve over time. For our part, we need to continually be cognizant of where lines are drawn between freedom of expression and individual's rights to express themselves, and expression that steps over the boundary of what is constructive and civil. It is often a complicated task, precisely because what one person perceives as harsh (or humorous), another does not.

But our efforts assume that the majority of users wish to engage in productive discussions.

This means that there is some responsibility assumed by the users of this board as well. Among other things, it is incumbent upon the users to recognize that there are differing concepts regarding what is 'insulting', for example, or 'belligerent'. Often such behavior is clear, but on occasion someone takes offense where no offense was intended - and indeed, where many reasonable posters find little to be offensive. It is difficult to adjust for the sensitivity levels of the very wide range of cultural, political, religious, and international attitudes represented on ScubaBoard.

This is by no means an intent to say "grow a thicker skin if you intend to participate on ScubaBoard".

We strive to ensure dialog is civil for all users, regardless of their sensitivity level.

Nevertheless, posters need to realize that on occasion there will be posts that may be considered by some users to be insensitive. We attempt to control this. But we also have no wish to 'over-control' the debate on the board. We seek a happy medium, where control is adequate but not oppressive. There will be occasions, seldom - but they occur, when individuals feel they cannot participate due to what they perceive to be an intolerable level of insensitivity on the board. While this is unfortunate, I doubt that we will ever please ever single user of this board with the level of dialog that is allowed to exist, in all forums, at all times. Posters need to realize that if they intend to participate in online forums, they will need to adopt at least a modicum of coping mechanisms to deal with the level of discussion or debate they will discover online. The staff can only do so much. The users themselves have significant ability to determine what will be tolerated, and what will not be tolerated. And with that ability, comes a commensurate responsibility.

We - all of us together - will determine the level of civility and academic honesty that will be represented, broadly, on ScubaBoard.

We won't likely please everyone, all the time. But if participants use the Report boxes, and the other tools available on the board, and if the vast majority of users not only regulate their own language, but determine what they will tolerate from others, over time we all together will continue to make ScubaBoard one of the most constructive and informative forums on the net.

Regards,

Doc

 

[livinoz]

I certainly wasn't suggesting that the loudest voices were necessarily the "factual" ones.

I did say earlier that I think we do need to take more personal responsibility for what we say and how we say it, and that due to the large number of users here we also have to be mindful that there will always be differences in perception about what is offensive or sensitive and what is not. I don't think I'm being overly sensitive about this myself, after all I'm still here and posting, but I still think we can strive to do better as individuals.

I'm also aware things can be misinterpreted; sarcasm is one response that comes across badly in the written medium.

What I wanted to do by posting this was make people aware of how these particular problems come across to someone new to the board. It is off-putting, and as I have had PM's stating that others have had the same experience I thought it should be discussed. I'm no "people's representative" or anything of the sort, just another person expressing an opinion. As it is, this is one of the best forums around but certain aspects can be made a little better; we can all, together, strive to do that though, don't you think?

 

[Cacia]

I did say earlier that I think we do need to take more personal responsibility for what we say and how we say it

Another option is to just be honest, and say what you really mean. (like Kim)
And if you don't agree with somebody, just get over it.

I'm curious...how many "more polite" boards are out there? I have not seen them. As far as newcomers being put off, I think you have to season yourself a bit to be on any internet forum.