What would you do??

[dmaziuk]

i can't think of a single Ontario Great Lakes charter boat that would do that. There is a captain and depending on the size of the boat, a crew member. You set up your own gear and dive your own dives. It's refreshing.

What, none of them would set up your gear if you pay them an extra fifty? How about a hundred? A thousand? Not a single one? Those dam chocolate-making socialists...

 

[fjpatrum]

We're going around in circles on this. I don't really disagree with anything here. Other than I'm still kinda in agreement with not touching anyone else's gear to help. When I do this in a DM capacity I'm insured (how that works in reality should the buddy have an incident underwater I'm not sure and hope not to find out--but I know if I follow PADI standards, local protocol and use good judgement PADI will probably back me and the insurance will probably cover anything that may happen). As a buddy on vacation, the insurance probably doesn't kick in. Either way, the DM/crew on board are the one's who should be helping with gear, or doing it for them, etc.--and they need to know--they are insured for that trip. So we're looking at a legal thing, a being nice and helpful thing, and above all a safety thing, for both buddies underwater. Let's just say you attach the reg for them and something related (or not) happens during the dive--not likely, but who knows, you could stand a chance of being legally responsible. It's a little different being on a boat than my example of assembling problems she had at a shore site. I stand by those who agree that not being able to assemble it on a boat meaning other inwater skills are very poor is quite possible. There's the safety aspect.

Tom, I'm not sure we're disagreeing at all. I never indicated I would assemble anyone else's gear. Offering to help and be a buddy doesn't mean "take care of everything", it just means I'm the kind of person who would say "Hey DM, this person's new I'm going to buddy with him. Keep your eyes open for us under water, occasionally" and then I would "help" the new buddy set up gear by talking them through it, not doing it for them. I'd also disassemble my gear and show them using that, if there was enough time and it seemed appropriate.

Would I be very wary of a diver who couldn't assemble their gear? Probably, but we'd also have a good pre-dive conversation, just like I have with every instabuddy, to determine why they had issues assembling gear and go from there. If it's just a "long time out of the water" we would discuss that and plan accordingly. Like I said, I'm comfortable with "same ocean buddies" but I tend to feel responsible for people in situations like this, just a personality thing. I would do my best to be a good buddy and help them get back into the groove, for at least one dive. If they were a conscientious buddy during the first dive, we'd buddy up again, no matter their actual skill level. If not, we discuss and I might try to get a different buddy or bail on repeat dives, as necessary.

In the end, I think most dives we do as OW rec divers are pretty benign and can be handled well enough with some communication beforehand. I won't be volunteering to do swimthroughs or penetrations of any kind with an "unknown" diver but I don't do those myself anyway so I won't be missing much.

 

[george_austin]

It's not the shop's fault he's incompetent. They verify that he has the credentials, so blame his poor instructors.

Now that shop-blame is out of the way... There are a few ways I could play this:

* Talk to him and determine if he feels bad about it, or if he's a dick and this gear check is beneath him.
** Knowledgeable yet lazy dick:
*** Go solo, or ask for another buddy if he was supposed to be yours, or just go have a beer (because that dive might end badly).
** If he feels bad about it and isn't a dick:
***Talk to him and assess his skill level and knowledge.
***** If his knowledge/skills are awful, politely tell him he should reconsider today's dive and perhaps do a refresher course, or hire a dive guide/personal DM from the shop to take him.
***** If his knowledge/skills aren't atrocious: Be nice to him and help him out. Show him what he's doing wrong and how to fix it.

There was this one trip I took 3 years ago to Mexico . . The boat DM was so gorgeous I put my BP/W on upside down. Now, I dive Southern California and I dive about 200-300 times a year for 44 years (some years I hardly dived at all) but nonetheless . . this girl had me so out of sorts . . . oh my, - . .

That being said - I would help the guy/gal out with a smile (and keep an eye on him/her all day. No one is above or below a little help. It's just scuba diving

 

[george_austin]

Huh?! What is the correlation between able to assemble their scuba great to being competent divers in the water? I've seen non-certified salespeople very competently put together scuba gear in a shop, and way more often, I've had very experienced dive guides botch setting up my dive gear on a dive boat (because guests were told not to put their dive gear together). For many vacation divers, the first time they see the dive gear they will be using is right before they gear up, since lots of vacation divers either don't have their own gear, or don't travel with it, or in some cases, the airline somehow lost their bags with dive gear. My wife would be hard pressed to put her own dive gear together, and has absolutely no desire to remember how to, but she's an extremely competent diver, and that's part of the price I pay for having her dive with me

There is nothing wrong with being a vacation dive and enjoying the dive if you're a competent and safe diver. In many cases, these type of divers significantly improve diving for me, because halfway through my dive they're all out of air and on their way to the surface, so the guide and I (and my wife) essentially get the second half of the dive with the guide all to ourselves to find interesting critters without everyone bumping in to us

If you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent. Not that there's anything wrong with being incompetent but call an apple an apple and an orange an orange. You post makes no sense whatsoever to people that are divers.
And you're from Malibu?

 

[stuartv]

If you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent at assembling gear. Not that there's anything wrong with being incompetent but call an apple an apple and an orange an orange. You post makes no sense whatsoever to people that are divers.
And you're from Malibu?

His post made perfect sense to me (barring a couple of obvious typos). But then, I'm still working on becoming a diver. I'm hoping to be there in another couple of years, though!

 

[TMHeimer]

If you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent. Not that there's anything wrong with being incompetent but call an apple an apple and an orange an orange. You post makes no sense whatsoever to people that are divers.
And you're from Malibu?

Again, I agree here. Would someone be in a plane about to jump and not know how to assemble the parachuting equipment? Or trust someone (even a pro) to assemble it correctly? I realize you can't go splat on the ground scuba diving, but there are still significant risks.

 

[stuartv]

Lots of people have no idea how to even take the seat of their motorcycle off or put it back on. Much less something truly safety related like installing a wheel or some brake pads. That means they are incompetent mechanics. That doesn't mean they are incompetent riders.

 

[CuzzA]

I think the better analogy would be... you hop in a car with someone and the guy sitting next to you in the "drivers seat" says, "Man, I haven't done this in a while, where does the key go?"

 

[Dhboner]

Terrible analogy...taking the seat on and off and doing a brake job are not part of the motorcycle licence requirements and the rider's inability to do either is not a reflection of the last time they rode. An active scuba diver will always know how to assemble their gear and someone on a boat who does NOT know has likely been out of the water for some time and it SHOULD raise a red flag.

 

[geoff w]

If you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent...

Brilliant analysis! And quite true, if you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent - at assembling your own gear. However, extrapolating one's ability to assemble scuba gear to being a competent diver is not a valid correlation. Based on many dive guides from my vacations who insisted on setting up everyone's gear, there is also limited correlation between being a highly qualified diver and being able to correctly set up a set of dive gear

---------- Post added January 13th, 2016 at 06:38 PM ----------

I think the better analogy would be... you hop in a car with someone and the guy sitting next to you in the "drivers seat" says, "Man, I haven't done this in a while, where does the key go?"

Ever watch someone get into a Porsche and try to start one the first time? Or an old Saab? Or one of several recent models of high end German luxury sedans? I still struggle every time I try to start one of the newer BMW 7 series with what passes as a key