What would you do??

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Brilliant analysis! And quite true, if you can't assemble your own gear, you are incompetent - at assembling your own gear. However, extrapolating one's ability to assemble scuba gear to being a competent diver is not a valid correlation. Based on many dive guides from my vacations who insisted on setting up everyone's gear, there is also limited correlation between being a highly qualified diver and being able to correctly set up a set of dive gear

---------- Post added January 13th, 2016 at 06:38 PM ----------



Ever watch someone get into a Porsche and try to start one the first time? Or an old Saab? Or one of several recent models of high end German luxury sedans? I still struggle every time I try to start one of the newer BMW 7 series with what passes as a key
I will take your word on that, as you have the experience in that setting and I don't. Otherwise I would find it difficult to believe. But I have to ask, how do these guides know there is no correlation if they are always setting up everyone's gear anyway? Is it word of mouth from other DMs who don't set up gear, or do they just ask their own customers if they would've been able to do it themselves?

Can't really follow the car analogy. I would have trouble starting these high tech. cars too--they are not mine. In fact, I'm never crazy about driving someone elses low tech. car and would have to think a bit (IS there a low tech. car today that doesn't tell you it's time to blow your nose?). I have no idea how to set up tech diving stuff. I could give a bit of leeway if the dive buddy in question was new and unfamiliar the exact details of say, the rented jacket BC he has. But such details are very minor--regs. all set up the same way, other than yoke vs. DIN.
 
Ever watch someone get into a Porsche and try to start one the first time? Or an old Saab? Or one of several recent models of high end German luxury sedans? I still struggle every time I try to start one of the newer BMW 7 series with what passes as a key

Nope. But if you can't start my Chevy truck, you ain't driving.
 
I will take your word on that, as you have the experience in that setting and I don't. Otherwise I would find it difficult to believe. But I have to ask, how do these guides know there is no correlation if they are always setting up everyone's gear anyway? Is it word of mouth from other DMs who don't set up gear, or do they just ask their own customers if they would've been able to do it themselves?

Can't really follow the car analogy. I would have trouble starting these high tech. cars too--they are not mine. In fact, I'm never crazy about driving someone elses low tech. car and would have to think a bit (IS there a low tech. car today that doesn't tell you it's time to blow your nose?). I have no idea how to set up tech diving stuff. I could give a bit of leeway if the dive buddy in question was new and unfamiliar the exact details of say, the rented jacket BC he has. But such details are very minor--regs. all set up the same way, other than yoke vs. DIN.

When we were at Wakatobi last fall, it was the resort's policy to set up gear for guests, unless guess protested loud and often. I did and was happy. Fantastic service, great resort, awesome diving, but the guys who set up everyone's gear were boat hands who did not dive, or know how to dive. All the guests seemed very happy to have someone else set up their gear, especially for what diving cost there, and in general the guests (from all over the world) were very competent divers.

Personally, I usually have to re-set up my gear at least half the time some dive operator insists on setting up all the gear before guests are allowed on the boat (Hawaii, Caribbean, Tahiti, etc) because they either have things configured wrong or forget to do something. When we were diving in Fiji, after watching tanks slip out of BCs for several days under water, I had to show the dive operator how to properly thread a cam band. Some of the guides there were certainly competent, but couldn't even tell if their own gear was assembled correctly or not

The car analogy of where does the key go was pretty weak, but I was just pointing out a lot of experienced and capable drivers can be confounded by the simple act of "where does the key go" in a variety of cars, with the ignition on the left of the steering wheel (Porsche), on the floor (Saab), or not even something that looks like a key slot. Heck, on a lot of new cars, it's hard to figure out how to put it in gear once you figure out how to get it started
 
geoff w, OK, I understand all that. That some guides, DMs can set up gear great but don't dive on the charter so they may or may not be good divers. Also that some guides are not that good at setting it up (I had my bio-tank lock screwed too tight once by a very competent DM who then went spearfishing). And that some can do a great job, some a bad job at both setting up gear and diving. But you still haven't explained how the dive guides you've talked to determined that there is limited correlation between poor setteruppers and poor divers. I would still think there is more than limited correlation.
 
geoff w, OK, I understand all that. That some guides, DMs can set up gear great but don't dive on the charter so they may or may not be good divers. Also that some guides are not that good at setting it up (I had my bio-tank lock screwed too tight once by a very competent DM who then went spearfishing). And that some can do a great job, some a bad job at both setting up gear and diving. But you still haven't explained how the dive guides you've talked to determined that there is limited correlation between poor setteruppers and poor divers. I would still think there is more than limited correlation.

A few points to clarify: When we were diving at Wakatobi, most of the guys who set up gear on the boats for guests were non-divers. I never claimed a statistically significant sample size, I was just going by my personal observations that many guides (and vacation divers) who are poor (or non-) setteruppers are quite competent divers. When I've been on local So Cal boats, or on local beach dives, if someone is having a problem setting up their gear, I'll give them a hand if they need it, but don't form any preconceived notion of their diving ability based on whether they can strap a BC onto a tank and connect a regulator. There are usually much better indicators to assess whether they'll have problems in the water. Some people are hopeless when it comes to dealing with equipment (instructors and course directors included, based on my experience). Everyone is free to form their own opinions agreeing or disagreeing, whatever makes them feel good about themselves
 

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