What would you do??

[camkole]

Maybe I'm being a little harsh, but you have to wonder what skills may be missing during the dive if the diver can't assemble gear. A safety thing. Years before I took OW I was on a cruise ship and passed on what was back then a Discover Scuba, as it's called today. Seemed sketchy, and I was always a "water" person. I don't think you have to live and breathe diving to be OK. But it only makes sense to have the basics down pretty good before doing a charter.

With that said,
you don't know what skills anyone is missing regardless if they know how to set up their gear or not. If you don't know them, you then don't know their experience or skill set since you just met them. There is risk with everyone even experienced divers. It comes with the territory.

I believe that there are times more often than necessary that experienced and season divers tend to condescend and look down on inexperienced divers. It's rude, uncalled for, and immature. We are a community of people with the desire to explore and experience something a lot of people are afraid of doing. We should respect one and another. Just because you have a certification and more experience than another person does not by any means make you a better person. A lot of people don't have the time to dive often and when they do get a chance I'm sure they wouldn't want someone ruining that for them because they were a jerk. Be grateful you have the extra time to dive as much as you do.

 

[dmaziuk]

Seen it more than once. Diver gets certified. Maybe even trained right. Then no local diving and 3 or even 6 months later they are on the boat all ready for that first ocean reef dive and suddenly realize they have have not set up their gear in six months and then it was only over a few class dives.

I resemble that remark -- except that as a techno-geek with a*al-retentive memory for cogs and gears, I only forgot to leave the dust cap off the spent tank afterwards. As I recall. My better half, OTOH, always asks me to help set up and disassemble her gear -- but it's fretting and need for resassurance rather than actually not remembering how. So I don't think it's an excuse. I mean, come on, the only things to remember are tank hole towards your back, yoke shouldn't hiss louder than boat's engine, inflator button should inflate, tank shoudn't fall out. There aren't too many ways to get those done wrong. If you don't get those, or the "don't hold your breath" bit, maybe you should try a different hobby. Like base jumping.

PS. not that I wouldn't help someone out with their gear if they asked nicely, but I think "they're stupid because they're inexperienced" argument is a non sequitur.

 

[geoff w]

...Personally, if someone cannot assemble their kit, then it's a fair assumption that their other entry-level skills are also perished and unreliable...

Huh?! What is the correlation between able to assemble their scuba great to being competent divers in the water? I've seen non-certified salespeople very competently put together scuba gear in a shop, and way more often, I've had very experienced dive guides botch setting up my dive gear on a dive boat (because guests were told not to put their dive gear together). For many vacation divers, the first time they see the dive gear they will be using is right before they gear up, since lots of vacation divers either don't have their own gear, or don't travel with it, or in some cases, the airline somehow lost their bags with dive gear. My wife would be hard pressed to put her own dive gear together, and has absolutely no desire to remember how to, but she's an extremely competent diver, and that's part of the price I pay for having her dive with me

There is nothing wrong with being a vacation dive and enjoying the dive if you're a competent and safe diver. In many cases, these type of divers significantly improve diving for me, because halfway through my dive they're all out of air and on their way to the surface, so the guide and I (and my wife) essentially get the second half of the dive with the guide all to ourselves to find interesting critters without everyone bumping in to us

 

[Kharon]

... Then for the dives, I would of course assume I'm diving solo, ...

That's the problem. You are not diving solo, you are diving with a ticking time bomb.

---------- Post added January 7th, 2016 at 03:05 PM ----------

In my experience forgetting how to set gear up isn't indicative of a bad or even a sloppy diver.

Seriously????? No one in the OW class that I took that didn't have gearing up cold simply did not pass. If they can't gear up why would I assume that they have any of the other requisite skills. Gearing up is the simplest, safest part of diving. If they don't know how to do that I don't want to be anywhere near them in the water.

 

[stuartv]

Huh?! What is the correlation between able to assemble their scuba great to being competent divers in the water?

+1. My g/f never dived anywhere outside the Caribbean until she went with me to the OBX a couple of months ago. On all her dives in the Caribbean, the boat crew literally did everything for her. I think she is a good diver and she does know how to put her kit together. But, with all her prior experience, there'd be no blaming her for not remembering exactly how to put it all together the first time we went to the OBX, and yet still be a reasonably skilled and safe diver.

What is a more ironic question, to me, is "they actually checked your C cards before you got on the boat?"

I dived with two different boats last week down in south Florida. I got multiple Nitrox fills. Nobody ever asked to see my or my g/f's C cards for any of it (diving or Nitrox). I analyzed my Nitrox fills, but they never asked me to sign a log book for that, either. One asked me my cert agency and level of certification. They may have both asked me to write in my cert # on their sign-in sheet. But that was it.

If you were on a boat where they actually checked C cards, at least that's something!

 

[TMHeimer]

If being amazed that someone on a dive boat can't set it up is condescending, I'm guilty. Agree with those that there is a decent probability that this person is also forgetful of other dive skills. Of course this has nothing to do with being a "better or worse person" (phrase started in the '80s somewhere?). Agree that you are in more danger with this buddy than solo--another old SB topic. Yes, someone who always had it assembled for them may have 1,000 dives and be way better than me. The % of that probably not high. Yes there are risks being being paired with any instabuddy regardless of their experience. I would think being unable to assemble it would would be an alarming big red light for most people. Or maybe just for us "experienced SB condescenders"?

Several years ago (just after becoming a DM) I was seeking a buddy for a shore dive. Father and teen daughter show up. Daughter started putting the reg on backwards (not 2nd stages on left, etc.--backwards on the tank valve, so it DON'T FIT and you get no air!). They were both just certified. I helped her out and the three of us did have a nice dive. They both were in fact very safety conscious, reviewing skills in the shallows while I checked out the current. This may be one of those cases where the diver may actually be OK even if she can't "assemble"? Of course, I would never say anything not nice to such a person. This was the only time I have ever seen this. I was back home in our shop and told the story to a couple of instructors who laughed and said it is not all that uncommon. Again, I was amazed.

 

[Insta-Gator]

The underlying point is that people die while scuba diving. Sometimes it is someone who is pushing the limits beyond their training, sometimes it is someone who is inadequately trained, or inadequately experienced, or simply needs to stick to sports that are not life threatening, and the worst and saddest of all is the death of a good diver who is trying his/her best to save a bad diver.

So, if your sensitivities are so tender because you think someone is being condescending toward the "I forgot" diver, just remember that all those people on the boat who paid to be there, trained and practiced their skills to become confident and competent, it should not be assumed by Mr. "I forgot" that any one of these people owe them the risk of their life to make up for Mr. "I forgot" deficiencies.

 

[Skeptic14]

I think helping out a new or inexperienced diver that could potentially prevent an accident whether by setting up gear or suggesting a refresher course prior to diving and notifying the DM of deficiencies can all be done in a non-condescending manner.

There isn't a jerk prerequisite for saving lives.

 

[AdivingBel]

I for one don't choose to make a judgement on whether or not someone will die during their dive 'cause they can't remember if their console is on the left or the right. If you choose to make that distinction, well good on you. As long as you're not a condesending pr**k about it and keep it to yourself on the boat, then that's your opinion and your welcome to it. I'll help the poor sod out and hope he/she enjoys their outing/vacation. If they expire while under the sea, I'll try to sleep at night knowing they were a consenting adult making a reasoned decision to hop in the drink with the knowledge they possess after showing their proper certifications and signing the appropriate paperwork prior to boarding the boat. Safe and happy diving & if you struggle rethreading a cam band, I'll help if you ask.

 

[Centrals]

I always have trouble with this, "They are vacation divers so please give them a break!" approach...is there something about vacation diving that makes it inherently safer than other forms of diving so much so that you don't need to stay current or keep your skills up so long as you only dive on vacation. Are you less likely to get in trouble in unfamiliar waters just because you are on vacation? Are "vacation climbers" less likely to fall off rock faces than climbers who practice regularly? It is NOT a condescending attitude nor is it pathetic...it is a genuine concern that someone who discloses that they can't remember how to assemble their rig might also have forgotten buoyancy control, gas monitoring, paying attention to NDL's. I don't mean to sound harsh or elitist or anything else but in my 40 odd years of diving I have seen this far too often...a boat full of well-intentioned folks who were certified a long time ago and only manage to get in the water when they are on holidays and they seldom realize the very real danger to themselves and others. If you can only dive on vacation then at least budgrt for a short refresher course at home before you leave home.

How to set up equipment and underwater skill is two completely different matters! Unless I have seen it underwater, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.