What's with sidemount?

[BabyDuck]

plus easy visual aids!!

ps - now rob knows the truth about my sidemounting being larry's choice, though i don't think that part of the dives was my most frustrating moment.

 

[turt1e]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread.


Capt Frank, I'm curious on your views on sidemount now that you have had 2 years of further observation. Specifically, if over these 2 years you have seen an increase and how it may or may not have affected how you run your boat. I ask because the wife and I will be in the process of learning sidemount and I thought the shear number of dives possible on a liveaboard trip like yours would be a good way to get our sidemount comfort level up.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[Wookie]

I haven't seen a single sidemount diver since I asked the initial question. That's why I think the value is dubious for open ocean reef diving where doubles is not an option....

 

[billgraham]

My problem with sidemount is the same as diving indies in a backmount scenario. If you get task loaded and miss a tank switch you have blown your whole gas plan. Is this true or am I missing something? If you are not involved in anything that would add task beyond the tank switch, no biggie?
Eric

If you can't keep track of how much gas you have and switch regs, you probably shouldn't be doing any kind of tech diving that involves gas switches.

I ask because I'm trying to get my head wrapped around sidemount for recreational divers. It seems we are going to see this configuration more and more, so I want the crew to be ready for it. It means I will have to go out and buy a bunch of 40's for rentals, and figure out a way to secure them on the boat. It's gonna make surface intervals longer, which means less diving for all because it takes longer to fill 2 tanks than one. Not for the air compressor, but for hooking up the whips and actually filling them. If it were a passing fad, I wouldn't bother with it. If it's something I have to cater to, I need to configure the boat a little differently.

Why not just have the rule be "no double tanks" then? You're doing single tank charters, keep it that way, no?

Bob, how do you add more than 2 bottles in side mount ?
With back mounted doubles you sling your deco bottles, what would be the solution for side mount ? I'm imagining the sling space would be occupied by the side mount "back gas"

Depending on your rig, you work it out with leashes and clips so they sit on top of the main tanks. Takes some fooling with, but the same is true for backmount stages and deco bottles.

Having finally taken my tec class, I'm now seriously considering taking side mount course. I found myself wanting to get more experience with manifold doubles as it still felt unnatural compared to my single tank BPW setup. However, most of the diving I do is 1-2 hour flight away. I could limit myself to shops that rent doubles, but in my limited experience so far, there's enough difference in how doubles are setup to mess up my trim. I'm also on the shorter side and valve drills take more effort for me than I think it should, it was probably my least enjoyed training exercise. I'm considering going side mount as it would be much easier for me to rent a pair of AL80's when i travel.

It is definitely awesome for traveling and doing technical dives. With an OC sidemount rig and a pile of regs, I can do anything so long as the gas is available.

How about a solo card?

wtf is a solo card? I rarely dove with anyone else until I started cave diving.

I just noticed that this is really old, ha ha!

 

[The Chairman]

I haven't seen a single sidemount diver since I asked the initial question. That's why I think the value is dubious for open ocean reef diving where doubles is not an option....

Well, you've made it pretty common knowledge that you don't want to deal with sidemount divers. Sometimes you get what you ask for! Do you allow doubles at all? I think you do, but I'm not sure.

In reality, I've done some sidemount diving off of boats in order to simply evaluate the process. There are some positives as well as negatives for doing this. For the most part, sidemount for me is best done in caves or when I need to dive doubles and there's a flight involved. I like back mounted doubles just fine for most tek dives in the ocean off of a commercial boat. That doesn't mean I won't dive sidemount when I feel a need to. Before I do though, I'll make sure the boat is sidemount friendly.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, you've made it pretty common knowledge that you don't want to deal with sidemount divers. Sometimes you get what you ask for!

Pretty much. People don't dive to get hassled for their equipment choices ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Wookie]

Well, you've made it pretty common knowledge that you don't want to deal with sidemount divers. Sometimes you get what you ask for! Do you allow doubles at all? I think you do, but I'm not sure.

That's not true. I don't care if we have sidemount, I don't care what configuration you dive including monkey diving. All I care about is you not have doubles on a recreational trip and you can jump off a boat and climb back on with all of your gear in place.

Sidemount divers tend to be the ones who have a "Bad Back" or need more air or (as stated in another thread) want to look cool. That means, to me, that the folks advocating and pushing sidemount are folks interested in an equipment solution to a health problem. We dive in remote areas far from help in sometimes rough and arduous conditions. You are right, I don't need someone who will get hurt jumping off a 6 foot boat or climbing back on one. I don't need someone who can't make a table or computer limited recreational dive on a single tank. That isn't the type of diving liveaboard divers do. We go on adventures, and sometimes the conditions aren't the same as they are on the Benwood or Molasses.

 

[The Chairman]

Well, I guess diving in the Sea of Cortez on a liveaboard is not considered remote! But it's way OK, I dive a lot of configurations and have done so even on your boat. I try to be as flexible as I can and refuse to have to rely on only one protocol. That makes it easy for me to adapt to any particular biases like don't wear splits in cave country or dive sidemount on certain boats!

It's really important for sidemount or sidemount curious divers to inquire ahead of time BEFORE they assume that everyone accepts their divestyle choice. This is just as true for rebreather divers. If you expect to dive a somewhat novel configuration, call, write or PM before you get there to be sure that you aren't hit with a lot of 'tude when you get there. The best way to deal with hurt feelings is to avoid any sort of confrontational 'tudes that will harsh your mellow. You either adapt the way that you're going to dive or you find an op with a better 'tude about your decisions. It's just that easy.

 

[Mustard Dave]

I had a go of sidemount diving a while back. At the time I was diving a single cylinder and jacket BCD typical recreational rig, but I was looking to move to a twinset. On club trips, I tend to buddy with a bloke who is about 60 and has been diving a couple of years longer than me. He was diving a similar rig to me and looking for a rig that gives him redundancy for deco dives. He also wants something that he can handle easily, not being as young as he once was.

He asked in the pub one night if anybody fancied doing a try dive. I decided to give it a go and we booked a dive with him at the quarry my club uses for training. I can't say I liked it to be honest. I didn't particularly find the harness comfortable, although I understand there are other harnesses available that are not CE marked and therefore cannot be used for teaching in the UK.

Some people have said it is easier to carry your cylinders to the water - I did not find this at all. If they are clipped on, they are banging around your legs and hips. If you are carrying them by hand, you cannot carry other kit. You don't see soldiers trekking across country with their kit strapped to their sides.

My buddy on the other hand loved it and has done the full course with a PADI instructor. I made my own backplate and now dive a Hog-rigged twinset. We were in Malta last year and this was the first time he would be diving with the club with his sidemount kit. He has made his own harness and I have to admit, it does seem to work pretty well in the water. He has made a couple of rails on the small of the back for clipping gear to. They look good but they are made from kitchen cabinet handles so we had to take the piss for that! On one dive, one of the lads grabbed them and was riding him as a DPV, with him totally unaware.

One of the issues he had was the dive centre we used only had cylinders with a right-hand valve wheel, rather than having the opposing modular valves to hook the bungee over. H had anticipated this and had made a couple of posts that fit around the cylinder collar by modifying a couple of tank handles. He was fannying about a bit at first but after a couple of days, he seemed to be getting quicker kitting up.

April is going to be interesting though. We are doing a 3 day live-aboard on the sound of Mull, Scotland. The boat is a converted fishing boat and is quite compact. To get off, you have to climb over the gunwale. There is a small ledge, but only a couple of inches wide. You can support yourself as you sit down and use it to push away from the boat but you cannot stand on it. I cannot see getting a leg over the gunwale being an easy task with a cylinder clipped to your side.

 

[Wookie]

I didn't say that your experience on the Rocio del Mar wasn't remote, although the Socorro's would be more so, but the point is that, for many reasons, we don't allow doubles. It's a boat management practice. It has served us well for many years, and the call for change comes from a very few, not from the majority. Perhaps Dora hasn't seen the number of really close calls I have, some based on equipment configuration.

5 years ago there was a hearty call for me to do tech diving. I invested heavily in the gear, including boosters and cylinders and bank bottles and all of the equipment I would need to have a real liveaboard tech boat. One where anyone in the world could come and have rebreather supplies and spares, rental doubles, anything you might need to fly in and go on some world class wreck dives. I invested well over 75 grand in tech training, crew training, material and equipment. I threw open my door, hung out my shingle, and was open for business. The door is now faded, the shingle has cobwebs, and we run maybe one trip per year. Why? Because it's too expensive, or scheduled for the wrong week, or maybe next year.

Now, folks are calling on me to embrace sidemount doubles. I think I'll wait and see.....