The Chairman
Chairman of the Board
To coin a phrase, perhaps it's a criticism in search of problem.I have never had a student even remotely give a sign that they weren't happy to be taught that way.
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To coin a phrase, perhaps it's a criticism in search of problem.I have never had a student even remotely give a sign that they weren't happy to be taught that way.
And as I have sais several times, several of those interpretations come directly from PADI Headquarters.... Karl Shreeves will probably be very glad to best straightened out and told that what he wrote in the Undersea Journal is not what he actually thinks.
So, Andy, is there a scenario in which you envision a student demanding the right to kneel down in the silt and perform the skills in the billowing mud?
So, Andy, is it your experience that when you tell people you are giving them more instruction than the course requires that they get all upset and demand that they be taught at the minimum level?
Andy -- all I'm writing, and asking, is in YOUR interpretation of the BOLD PRINT in the PADI standards, does the phrase "manner expected" mean anything?
So, Andy, back to a question, IF you took a PADI referral for OW 1 - 4 and the student could do all the required mask flood/clear, mask remove/replace, while on their knees but NOT while in the water column, would you say:
a. "Mastery" was shown of the those skills; and
b. Certification must be granted per the BOLD PRINT STANDARDS OF PADI?
PADI has announced a lot of changes coming in the next year, and they have flat out said to me that the reasons for these changes are exactly what is happening in this thread. Wording will be revised, and new requirements added.
Just to be clear, in your understanding of the PADI Standards, the phrase "in the manner expected" has no significance -- or perhaps to turn the question around, WHAT DOES the phrase mean as you understand it?
As I think I've stated, my recollection from my "formal" instructor training is that it has zero meaning.
Perceptions and techniques change. It was once taught that the best way for the instructor to be in control of their class was to keep them on their knees with the instructor only on one knee. While this gave the instructor a modicum of control, it deprived the student of learning control. If you really want to control your students, give them the tools to do it themselves. I've had skeptic after skeptic, including some PADI Pros, try this and find that their actual control increased with the overall competency of their class. In fact, they comment that they have stopped having students bolt to the surface. Why? Students enjoy being in control and don't get spooked. Being able to do a skill while being neutral and not kneeling only makes sense to me and demonstrates that the skill has actually been mastered.The way that I've interpreted the issue of performance standards (assessments for qualification) is based on what I was unequivocally taught on IDC.
Perceptions and techniques change. It was once taught that the best way for the instructor to be in control of their class was to keep them on their knees with the instructor only on one knee.
If you really want to control your students, give them the tools to do it themselves. I've had skeptic after skeptic, including some PADI Pros, try this and find that their actual control increased with the overall competency of their class. In fact, they comment that they have stopped having students bolt to the surface. Why? Students enjoy being in control and don't get spooked. Being able to do a skill while being neutral and not kneeling only makes sense to me and demonstrates that the skill has actually been mastered.
... I do believe that PADI have a flawed approach to 'mastery'.... ...PADI are very good in removing ambiguity from their syllabus and standards. It is their stated aim to do so. Consistency is what they want - applied globally by all instructors at all locations. ...The points presented by some people in this thread seem to indicate that PADI has a deliberate policy of enforced ambiguity. That BIG BOLD standards are intentionally left open to interpretation on an individual case-by-case basis. I find that absolutely implausible, given PADI's stated aims and goals to achieve globally consistent certification standards. ...Yes, I would feel compelled to comply with both (a) and (b) as certification standards. I feel it would be a breach of training/instructor standards to do otherwise. Although I would counsel a student towards more training, I don't believe I could 'demand' it for certification.
What is interesting to me in this thread is that you keep forcing people to respond to you with things that you already know to be true from the many threads on this topic, especially in the Instructor to Instructor forum. I wonder why that is. Anyway, I will repeat some stuff you already know so that others may learn about it.Are you implying or stating that the methods of instructor development training have now changed to reflect an early transition to neutral buoyancy? IDC/IE candidates are now schooled to demonstrate and evaluate skills off the knees? Are assessed as such on IE?
What revisions to the CD manual and/or update materials reflect this policy change?
...
I agree wholeheartedly.... it's hardly a 'new' innovation though. It was (is?) only PADI's training and performance standards that prevented/discouraged this to date. Other agencies have allowed such 'innovative' methods... even within PADI, there are instructors who've been quietly getting along with this long before it became 'fashionable' since the UJ article was published..
Encouragement to 'teach off the knees' is evident throughout the PADI system. It's what made the 'Tech Deep' manual such a joke in the tech community. It's seen in virtually every PADI material and manual...
PADI release the brand new CCR materials around now.... Not seen them yet, but I'd wager there's some kneeling shenanigans in there too...
Yes, PADI are for changing... we've been hearing whispers of that for the last year. Don't under-estimate how much of a BIG shake-up that will involve if it is truly to be a resolute change in teaching philosophy... materials, books, videos, manuals, instructor training methods, instructor-trainer training methods... the list goes on... There will be a lot of inertia to overcome... and probably quite a few 'pros' who will neither want nor be capable of adapting to what is, in essense, a much more demanding (but successful) method of training delivery.