When to Scrub a Dive?

[Ghost95]

The simplest answer to me has always been, if I'm questioning wether I should call off the dive, that's reason enough to call it off. Even if I'm not sure why I feel that way.

 

[blueskies_up_ahead]

As a new diver this is really interesting to read. Just as stories of incidents, accidents and near misses. But I find it difficult to judge things as an inexperienced diver. The line between challenging and overwhelming isn't a clear one. On my first dive trip post certification I was obviously thrown in situations that were new to me. Some dive sites involved a little current or a quick swim through a little cavern (all dives were guided). Did the briefing scare me? Yes. Like most first times do. I discussed my hesitation and lack of experience. Ultimately I trusted the guide which probably isn't always a good idea. I'm really glad I went along though, as it helped me grow and gain confidence.

 

[lexvil]

Sometimes I’m a scuba diver and other times I’m a scruba diver.

anytime you’re not feeling it it’s time to call it.

 

[johndiver999]

As a new diver this is really interesting to read. Just as stories of incidents, accidents and near misses. But I find it difficult to judge things as an inexperienced diver. The line between challenging and overwhelming isn't a clear one. On my first dive trip post certification I was obviously thrown in situations that were new to me. Some dive sites involved a little current or a quick swim through a little cavern (all dives were guided). Did the briefing scare me? Yes. Like most first times do. I discussed my hesitation and lack of experience. Ultimately I trusted the guide which probably isn't always a good idea. I'm really glad I went along though, as it helped me grow and gain confidence.

Everyone will say don't do "trust me" dives, but in reality, when you are just starting out most dives feel like that. However, even if you are with a guide - or an experienced buddy, you should independently have a good idea of the plan, depth, time, dive objective, basic protocol for getting in and out, minimum gas pressure, air sharing plan (primary or secondary donate) and what to do if separated.

Hopefully, new divers expand their familiarity with new environments on an incremental basis and are able to distinguish situations that they can pretty much "get out of" without too much help from those that they are entirely dependent upon a buddy.

To be honest, I would rather have a buddy who says "I am a little worried about Y" and it is something we can discuss. Possibly with more information and/or encouragement the new diver's concerns can be ameliorated, if not then modify the dive plan or don't go. This is far better than the macho diver who fakes confidence and then freaks out unexpectedly when things become challenging underwater. I have seen BOTH situations quite a few times and it should not be hard to guess which one I prefer.

Often women will tell you what is going on in their head before a dive and I have seen, for example, macho, male cops absolutely freak, with seemingly no warning. All things being equal, I would rather have an unknown, weak women as a buddy than a strong man (who is too insecure to vocalize their apprehensions or ignorance).

 

[SlugLife]

As a new diver this is really interesting to read. Just as stories of incidents, accidents and near misses. But I find it difficult to judge things as an inexperienced diver. The line between challenging and overwhelming isn't a clear one. On my first dive trip post certification I was obviously thrown in situations that were new to me. Some dive sites involved a little current or a quick swim through a little cavern (all dives were guided). Did the briefing scare me? Yes. Like most first times do. I discussed my hesitation and lack of experience. Ultimately I trusted the guide which probably isn't always a good idea. I'm really glad I went along though, as it helped me grow and gain confidence.

That sounds like you didn't know what you were getting into, until you were on the boat (or at the site). IMO, that was the big failure on the part of the dive-op. If the dive is beyond what a relatively inexperienced diver should be trained and comfortable with, they should be informing divers ahead of time.

Discussing your lack of experience and hesitation was definitely the right call.

Whether this guide did the right thing by leading you on that dive anyway is difficult for me to judge without being familiar with the site. Based on the description, I probably wouldn't have lead a brand new open-water certified diver through such a place, unless it was very large and open, and if the diver got separated, it would be trivially easy for them to surface on their own safely 99.999% of the time.

I've certainly seen a few threads in the accidents-and-incidents section, where a far more experienced diver leads a less experienced diver into doing something fatal.

Everyone will say don't do "trust me" dives

Agreed with all of this.

I'd add that a "macho" or "this will be exciting" vibes from the other diver is a giant red-flag.

It's usually better if the other diver is listening to your concerns, explains what to do if separated, and shows a willingness to alter the dive. For classes, there is an extent to which we trust the instructor in a new environment. Of course a calm listening demeanor doesn't imply it's actually safe.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I'll describe the only dive I've called. I was fairly poorly trained in my open water, lots of skipped skills, basically spent 4 dives underwater kneeling next to a rope.

I start diving with a guy who was an instructor overseas with thousands of dives. He's got a boat and wants to do a dive in the middle of Puget Sound, no one tending the boat, in winter/below freezing. I was maybe 20 some dives at this point. Though even now, I would do the same thing, as I'm not going to wind up in the middle of the Sound without a boat. It is just ludricrous.

My buddy Eric was super pisssed who never talked to me again. In hindsight, that was the best outcome, as if I set aside my reservations and continued on with his shenanigans, @DandyDon would likely have posted about me at some point.

I know some people will be shocked, but his guy burned through dive buddies like no tomorrow. Don't be like Eric. Please.

 

[blueskies_up_ahead]

Everyone will say don't do "trust me" dives, but in reality, when you are just starting out most dives feel like that. However, even if you are with a guide - or an experienced buddy, you should independently have a good idea of the plan, depth, time, dive objective, basic protocol for getting in and out, minimum gas pressure, air sharing plan (primary or secondary donate) and what to do if separated.

Hopefully, new divers expand their familiarity with new environments on an incremental basis and are able to distinguish situations that they can pretty much "get out of" without too much help from those that they are entirely dependent upon a buddy.

That's the difficult part. I understand I'm responsible and not to blindly trust. But the distinction is difficult.

That sounds like you didn't know what you were getting into, until you were on the boat (or at the site). IMO, that was the big failure on the part of the dive-op. If the dive is beyond what a relatively inexperienced diver should be trained and comfortable with, they should be informing divers ahead of time.

Discussing your lack of experience and hesitation was definitely the right call.

Whether this guide did the right thing by leading you on that dive anyway is difficult for me to judge without being familiar with the site. Based on the description, I probably wouldn't have lead a brand new open-water certified diver through such a place, unless it was very large and open, and if the diver got separated, it would be trivially easy for them to surface on their own safely 99.999% of the time.

No, I didn't know what to expect. How could I? I mean looking at a map or being in the situation are two very different things, esp. as a new diver. The shop had descriptions of the dive site and possible difficulties when I signed up. At the site (land, not boat) there was a more in depth briefing and in one case the choice to take north or south route. The house reef also had a small cavern. I had the choice to go in or not, but in the end it was a really quick swim through (in on one side, out on the other, exit in plain sight). Same for the current. He did say he was expecting some current. For all dives I was buddied up with the group's guide or in some cases an extra guide. I see no fault on the side of the dive shop. I felt safe with them, would definitely recommend them and am glad I did those dives. I just wanted to point out that making the call on a dive when you're new is difficult as you will naturally experience new, challenging situations. "Don't dive beyond your limits" is all good and well but somehow you have to gradually expand those limits. And there is no real way to know up front if you're up to the challenge or not. The only one who can make an educated guess is the teacher / guide. Which brings us back to trusting them. It's not that clear cut.

 

[MacDuyver]

As a newbie, and after reading a significant number of posts here, I have all kinds of question. My primary work background is in telecommunications, including climbing towers. My recreational background includes rock climbing and mountaineering. At work, we had very good safety equipment and thorough safety briefings before each tower climb. If anyone wasn't physically well or if they just "weren't feeling it", they could stay on the ground; no problem, we needed climbers and ground pounders. And on mountaineering trips, I appreciated others who "knew what they knew" and "knew what they didn't know" and were willing to cancel a climb despite having invested a goodly sum to get there.

What are your absolutes that would prompt you to scrub a dive? And do you feel like the dive community does a good job teaching situational awareness and how to recognize and respond appropriately to sketchy conditions (weather, equipment, mental state, etc)?

I qualify squarely as a calculated risk taker. I love doing high stakes stuff, and living to tell the tale (and do it again!). Long ago I learned to trust my gut. It’s never steered me wrong. If your Spidey sense is tingling, scrap the dive. There’s something wrong with the picture that your conscious brain can’t put together logically, but your instinctive brain isn’t ok with. Trust that tingle. There will be another day, but today isn’t the time to take the risk.

Guaranteed scratch criteria:
Time - if I’m going to have to be on a compressed timeline I’m not going to go. There’s too much temptation to cut a corner in a rush.

Weather: Lightning within 10NM, or if I look on Weather Underground or Windy and see a gnarly looking system moving in within the next few hours, I’m scratching. Trying to beat the storm is a bad situation to put yourself in. This also applies to surf conditions. If those waves have a nice photogenic white cap on them I’m staying on land. Or I’m going surfing.

Gear - if anything is off in my pre-checks I’m not going. Valves and hoses. Compass and gauges. This includes my backups. Octo doesn’t work? Not going till I get it resolved.

Dive Plan - Haven’t had time for me or someone I’m going with to look at a bottom chart or at least a nautical chart of the area? Probably not going to go, but this one can be resolved over coffee morning of.

Large marine predators - tiger sharks, bull sharks, whites, or orcas: the dive is over. Frequency of attack is low, sure. That doesn’t change that they are apex predators, and I’m not. Big jellyfish too. They look cool in pictures but diving with them isn’t my jam.

Hangover or sinus headache - I’ve dived hungover twice. Hell w that. Absolutely miserable experience.

 

[johndiver999]

That's the difficult part. I understand I'm responsible and not to blindly trust. But the distinction is difficult.

No, I didn't know what to expect. How could I? I mean looking at a map or being in the situation are two very different things, esp. as a new diver. The shop had descriptions of the dive site and possible difficulties when I signed up. At the site (land, not boat) there was a more in depth briefing and in one case the choice to take north or south route. The house reef also had a small cavern. I had the choice to go in or not, but in the end it was a really quick swim through (in on one side, out on the other, exit in plain sight). Same for the current. He did say he was expecting some current. For all dives I was buddied up with the group's guide or in some cases an extra guide. I see no fault on the side of the dive shop. I felt safe with them, would definitely recommend them and am glad I did those dives. I just wanted to point out that making the call on a dive when you're new is difficult as you will naturally experience new, challenging situations. "Don't dive beyond your limits" is all good and well but somehow you have to gradually expand those limits. And there is no real way to know up front if you're up to the challenge or not. The only one who can make an educated guess is the teacher / guide. Which brings us back to trusting them. It's not that clear cut.

That's why you seek out information about a dive, determine if it "feels" right. If you feel you need a professional guide to be comfortable then seek one out - or skip the dive.

If you feel like the dive is reasonably similar to what you have done before, then just try to communicate with a buddy and see how it goes. Some dives are relatively forgiving while others, not so much.

For example, shore diving with just 2-3 divers with no shore support in cold water, from a rocky shore, with some seas and the potential for challenging currents, is a situation where you can EASILY get in trouble and there is no "beam me up Scotty button". Even a strong and supportive buddy may not get you over the rocks and through the waves in one piece if conditions deteriorate and/or you get leg cramps.

Conversely, if you are diving in warm clear water, from a boat with no constraints preventing an immediate ascent, then maybe going a little deeper than normal where you might be presented with an uncomfortable challenge of narcosis, probably ain't going to kill you if you just go up when you aren't having fun anymore. People have said over and over that you have to be smart, communicate and listen to your gut - there is no cookbook answer.

That is another reason why pursuing advanced training is worthwhile, you get to expand your experience while (hopefully) under adult supervision. There are many different routes to gaining experience in a new environment,

 

[JMarc]

As much as possible, expand one parameter at a time, keep the other well into your comfort zone. Don't dive with a new buddy in an unknown site to an unexperienced depth in unfamiliar conditions.