why not a poodle jacket

[Crush]

Let me begin by stating that I find the term "poodle jacket" to be pejorative, but I chose to use it to differentiate BP/w from other forms of BCs.

I completed an NACD Cavern cert and was allowed to use my BC during the course - it is a pretty minimalist Zeagle Scout. Our instructor was concerned that we tame our gear and minimize the possibilities of snags.

I am considering going on to try to complete an NACD cave singles cert. In order to do the course, I will need a BP/w. My question is: why? If I don't need doubles, and my Scout is a minimalist rear-inflate BC, and my trim is good, why do I need a BP/w? Assuming for the moment that I don't want to transition to doubles, what benefit will I get from a BP/w if I can already hover in a horizontal position for a long time without doing a "fairy flutter?"

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Let me begin by stating that I find the term "poodle jacket" to be pejorative, but I chose to use it to differentiate BP/w from other forms of BCs.

I completed an NACD Cavern cert and was allowed to use my BC during the course - it is a pretty minimalist Zeagle Scout. Our instructor was concerned that we tame our gear and minimize the possibilities of snags.

I am considering going on to try to complete an NACD cave singles cert. In order to do the course, I will need a BP/w. My question is: why? If I don't need doubles, and my Scout is a minimalist rear-inflate BC, and my trim is good, why do I need a BP/w? Assuming for the moment that I don't want to transition to doubles, what benefit will I get from a BP/w if I can already hover in a horizontal position for a long time without doing a "fairy flutter?"

Perhaps you should be asking your instructor ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crush]

Perhaps you should be asking your instructor ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I am not taking a course right now, and I have not signed up for one yet, so I have no instructor. I am asking you, Bob, or anyone else who has insight into this matter. I am clearly not a BP/w diver, nor am I (in this thread) trying to pick I fight with one. I am seeking input form the SB community, and I hope to receive some useful feedback.

 

[bamamedic]

After reading the NACD requirements on their website, I don't see anywhere that *requires* a BP/W. The Cavern requirements only state a "BC with power inflator", and the Intro to Cave cert (the only one you can do in a single cylinder besides Cavern), builds upon the Cavern requirements and adds an additional first stage, and a minimum length of a 5 foot hose, among a few other gear requirements. I don't see anything demanding a BP/W at that level.

NACD Training

Of course, equipment requirements are going to be dependent on the individual instructor. From what I understand, they can have their own minimum equipment requirements. It would be a very good idea to interview individual instructors and find one that you feel comfortable with, and who will allow you to dive your current BC.

 

[RJP]

Why not check the replies to one of the many threads, polls, and trolls that you've posted on the "BCD vs BP/W" topic?

Seems that you ask a variation on this question at least once a week; have you really not been able to find an answer to your question?

Your many threads notwithstanding, I find it hard to believe that the reasons that most cave divers chose a BP/W over a traditional BCD are still lost on someone who has completed a cavern course.

 

[Sas]

A Zeagle Scout is not what I would consider minimalist in comparison to a BP/W. Straps everywhere, poorly placed d-rings, bungees on the wing, dangly things hanging off the pockets and so on.

Have you tried a BP/W yet?

I think in OW BC choice makes little difference, whatever, but now that you are talking about cave it's a different story. Simple type of BP/W is superior to your Zeagle Scout for backmounted cave diving.

 

[RJP]

A Zeagle Scout is not what I would consider minimalist in comparison to a BP/W. Straps everywhere, poorly placed d-rings, bungees on the wing, dangly things hanging off the pockets and so on.

So Sas, do you really think there's a difference between this...

And this...

 

[ucfdiver]

Because it's blatant strokery and the instructor doesn't want to be seen in the water with it? Calling the Zeagle minimalistic is worthy of laughter. Plastic buckles, quick disconnects, padding, double waist straps, bungees on the wing, unnecessary chest strap, need I go on? Of course, all that sillyness would go nicely with a single tank cave diving course, since that's a dumb idea in it's self.

There, I said it. You got the reaction you wanted. Now go troll elsewhere please.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Let me begin by stating that I find the term "poodle jacket" to be pejorative, but I chose to use it to differentiate BP/w from other forms of BCs.

I completed an NACD Cavern cert and was allowed to use my BC during the course - it is a pretty minimalist Zeagle Scout. Our instructor was concerned that we tame our gear and minimize the possibilities of snags.

I am considering going on to try to complete an NACD cave singles cert. In order to do the course, I will need a BP/w. My question is: why? If I don't need doubles, and my Scout is a minimalist rear-inflate BC, and my trim is good, why do I need a BP/w? Assuming for the moment that I don't want to transition to doubles, what benefit will I get from a BP/w if I can already hover in a horizontal position for a long time without doing a "fairy flutter?"

None of the agencies I teach through and have the standards for require a BP/W for any of their courses. They don't even use that term. This is likely something your cavern instructor is requiring. My concern is not so much the BP/W, but doing the course in a single cylinder. While I realize the agencies allow for this and the intro level course was originally designed with a single tank in mind, I don't agree that it's a good idea. A single tank does not allow for a completely redundant system. There are cave systems where I can get 1500' from the entrance on 1/6 of my gas supply, which is equivalent to 1/3 of a single cylinder. That's a long way from unlimited air to be should you have a failure in your gas supply. And in the past couple of years, I have seen about 1/2 a dozen failures in valve o-rings.

 

[Crush]

Why not check the replies to one of the many threads, polls, and trolls that you've posted on the "BCD vs BP/W" topic?

Seems that you ask a variation on this question at least once a week; have you really not been able to find an answer to your question?

Your many threads notwithstanding, I find it hard to believe that the reasons that most cave divers chose a BP/W over a traditional BCD are still lost on someone who has completed a cavern course.

Hi RJP,

I have never posted a troll. You may not like my questions, and as such it may make you feel better to call my posts trolls, but I don't troll (although I am sorry if I have upset you). Please feel free to click the "Report" button if you feel I am trolling.

I have completed a cavern course, and I can't see why I need a BP/w to do a singles cave (this may be an instructor's preference, given bamamedic's response.) However, I am allowing for the possibility that I have missed something, hence the OP and the possibility of opening up myself to ridicule. I was looking for useful input, and expected some collateral ridicule. I have received now a reasonable portion of the latter, but little of the former. Thanks!

In the scientific community is is accepted that "it has been widely reported that..." translates to "I am to lazy to look up the reference to..." and "it is widely believed that..." translates to "I believe that... ." It seems that these analogies apply to SB as well.