Why the dislike of air integrated computers?

[DaleC]

Is it your experience that what you are describing as being "forced" upon people is actually happening on recreational dives...

Many of my colleagues were aghast and predicted that it would be harmful to learning spelling skills. I was not so sure, and I turned out to be right...

That does not mean that it is not a good thing for other people in their personal diving, and I think some of the reasons people are coming up with for it being bad for everyone are real reaches.

Perhaps forced is the wrong word. To me you either create a dive plan or blatantly accept you are diving without one. I do that sometimes on a fun dive. My point was that AIC's allow a third option which is diving under the assumption you have one while never thinking about or discussing it's details with others. Do people also dive SPG's poorly? Of course they do. My points are not admonitions, they are caveats. Just like I would say understanding neutral buoyancy is a caveat to diving without a BCD.

John, I respect your opinion but I think you were wrong about spell check. We now even have a generation that learned to spell doing so incorrectly and blaming it on their smartphone function with wide spread acceptance. Drives me a little loopy when I see 50+'s doing that. I have three kids who have grown up in the digital age and none of them thinks spelling is important. One even wanted to send his resume out unedited and could not understand why an employer would care about a few errors. I had to explain it represented his attention to detail and he did revise.. but I suspect he thought I was full of s__t.

Did you know SB's spellcheck feature tells me I am spelling favour wrong and lets me get away with typing "I pray to dog every mooring".

 

[JohnN]

. . . "I pray to dog every mooring".

Gee I think you're lucky to have your dog help you dock your boat

 

[The Chairman]

My point was that AIC's allow a third option which is diving under the assumption you have one while never thinking about or discussing it's details with others.

That's an option for SPGers as well. PDCs have often been maligned for killing tables, but even before they were popular I rarely saw a set of tables brought out. We used to rely on the rule of 120, and modified it to the rule of 140 when diving NitrOx.

John, I respect your opinion but I think you were wrong about spell check.

When I took over ScubaBoard, one of the mod's duties were to go around and correct everybody's spelling. Less is best. I'm so glad we stopped doing that. It's a great way to ID the less edumacated among us.

Did you know SB's spellcheck feature tells me I am spelling favour wrong and lets me get away with typing "I pray to dog every mooring".

Only because we are based in the US and decry the Frenchified spelling adopted by Tennyson.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I can't believe what happened to me during my reading 443 posts in this thread. I went from being completely opposed to any such nonsense about computers and especially AI or hoseless, and now I want a hoseless computer!
I was pretty much old school all the way. But then I started to think about 'why old school'? Remember, I'm not really a "vintage" diver.
My best argument was that computers will make people lazy and they will start to forget tables and the depth and time structure of the dive, and of course there were other things but looking back they were pretty lame. So then I started to think about what I have to go through to constantly try and remember all the depths I've been and how long, and try to keep a running total of averages instead of just the deepest depth, all in an effort to crudely mimic what a computer does. I ended up realizing when it's all said and done, yes I know the tables, and yes I know the rule of 120, and yes I can depth average and all that stuff, but I'm only a simple recreational diver. My dives don't really call for such tedious brain work. Thinking about it it's actually taking away from my dives because the dive becomes all about math. I have other things to do besides math underwater, like hunt for instance.
Finally I'm all about minimizing the amount of crap I need to have on my person. With analog, I had an SPG clipped off, a bottom timer on my wrist, and a compass on my other wrist. If I had a depth gauge and watch that would be two things on one wrist and a compass on the other, so four separate items I would need to be complete. Lets add all that up and see what the cost would be?
The the argument came up about reliability. After much back and forth it was concluded (at least in my mind) that the AI or hoseless computers if kept in shape are reliable enough for the type of dives I do, not too deep and not too long.
So, I've been looking at hoseless computers now and I see there are some with compasses and basically with one unit on my wrist with no hoses, I could have something that does it all.
I am officially in the market for a hoseless air/nitrox w/compass, and I don't really care what it costs as long as it's good and not a piece of crap.
Any suggestions?

 

[The Chairman]

I dive the Pelagics: Hollis DG03 and the Oceanic VTX. Easy to use and they support multiple transponders. When I sidemount, I just switch between the cylinders. I find the VTX to be better in the cave and the DG03 better in bright OW situations. Either way, I'm usually diving both for redundancy.

 

[Kharon]

I suspect there was a bit more to that, like they also told you how deep you were going and that turning around involved going up into the shallow part of the dive.

Sorry, but nope - nothing additional. I was there you were not. You can suppose all you want - but the facts are what they are.

 

[phoenix31tt]

I dive the Pelagics: Hollis DG03

i have a dg03 as well.. if i could find a transmitter that didn't cost more than the computer i'd prolly look into it

 

[guyharrisonphoto]

Eric,

I dive the Galileo Sol. I have nothing but the highest recommendation for it. Huge screen. Choice of well organized layouts including a "large number" screen for just the essentials (depth, time, NDL, PSI, Air time) or more detailed information. Extremely legible. Superb AI features and options--including the ability to set alerts for audiible, visual, both, or none! Best compass implementation I have seen on a computer (my beloved SK-7 now sits in a box). Because it is not color screen, I am at 100 dives and battery still shows full. Easily user-changeable battery (although it is a specialized type, but lasts forever). It does multi-gas nitrox, has a great and very fast three button control system. It runs the Buhlman algorithm and can be unlocked for trimix if you want. It has so many features it takes some time to learn and set up, but, during the dive, it is simple and intuitive in its operation. On the boat, gas changes are very easy if you dive different mixes on different dives.

It is a top line piece of gear and priced to match, probably 1100 new including the transmitter. You can find them used for several hundred less if you look around. It is one of those purchases that I have never regretted. If you have a chance to look at one (any scubapro dealer) I would check it out.

it is a big machine, not a wristwatch, and you will want to replace the strap with bungee (easy to do). It is not perfect for some people, and I am sure there are other good computers for less money. But, count me a very satisfied user.

Be careful of the color screens, they are not the panacea for everything. Some of them have small numbers, thinking the color makes them easier to read. For "over 50" eyes, not so, you still need corrective lenses. I can easily read my Galileo in "huge number' mode with no correction--size matters!. Also, in bright shallow water, or on the boat in the sun, color screens are very hard to read, even the best of them, which makes tracking surface interval or changing gas a pain. If you want an eye-opening experience, ask to take one out to the parking lot on a bright day and try reading it or using the menus. The "old tech" lcd screens are still much better in this regard. if your diving is deep, or in more limited vis, and you can find shade on the boat, then color has an edge.

 

[olphart]

I just did my first dive with AI. Mares Icon Hd.. I had the non AI and liked the display, so when a killer deal came along I grabbed it. I liked having that info right there, though I'm sure I wasted too much time looking at it while the current whizzed me along the river bottom. I didn't find a damn thing. I liked the "time before reserve" display and the feedback re breathing rate was cool as well. My spg and computer agreed all the way.
The biggest surprise was when I downloaded the dive onto the computer. Wow! I was able to go over every minute of the dive seeing breathing rate and depth. Other data too, but that was my main interest.
My rmv was huge during the first few minutes of the dive...not sure what that's about. I spotted where I changed out my leaky mask and the rate spiked a bit. I saw that it spiked again when I got to reserve pressure. Interesting..wouldna thunk it. I always check my RMV after a dive and was kind of disappointed with the results of my calculations, but the computer figure was a little better so that was good too
I'm sure that in time this will all become mundane, but for now it's like a new toy but the spg stays..at least for now.

 

[The Chairman]

One of the best attributes of a PDC is that it's not prone to diver denial! I thought I was doing safety stops, but my PDC showed I was doing Safety Pauses. I thought my SAC was about 0.01, but my PDC indicated closer to 0.6 and in some cases, 0.8. It's down to around 0.5 now, and I'm fine with that. Like I've said before, I've never seen a narced PDC.