Once again, a discussion has been resurrected that, in itself is productive, but which is too often tainted by nonsense, mis-representation, and inaccurate or simply completely wrong information. It is frustrating. But, before further comment, I will provide the necessary disclaimers, using something I put in another thread earlier today.
I happen to personally prefer a SS BP/W for recreational diving. But I also own, and periodically dive, i) a couple of jacket BCDs, ii) a ‘soft’, back-inflate BCD (Zeagle Ranger) and iii) several 'soft' BP rigs (Zeagle Express Tec plate, DR TransPac, Apeks Travel plate). I mention this so that my subsequent comments can be viewed in the context of an admitted bias, as well as an experience base.
BUT, irrespective of what I dive, I firmly believe that the best BCD for any recreational diver is the one that the individual diver prefers. And, for some that may well be a jacket BCD. The bigger issue in the discussion is, or should be, how do you know what you prefer, unless you try it? I am not talking about illegal drugs, risky sex, or absurd extreme sports. I am talking about simple, readily available, commercial products, that are often ‘tryable’ before buying. And, I am talking about people who actually have experience with those products – not just a negative reactions based on perception rather than experience – making legitimate suggestions that they may be worth trying. This isn’t a cult, this is a matter of people with experience sharing that experience. Unfortunately, at times when those suggestions are made, the discussions gets derailed with irrelevant comments that don’t relate to the actual discussion. For example:
I guess my 40 years of using BCD's is a waste, I am going to die because of using a BCD not a BP/W. Yeah, my trim and buoyancy and God knows what else are just not Kosher now.
NO, nobody said that you are going to die, or even implied it. NO, no one said your buoyancy and trim are not Kosher. And, this is completely irrelevant to the discussion. What has been done for 40 years is fact and history, but not necessarily relevant to, or predictive of, what will be done in the next 40 years. Nor is it a waste by any means, and I haven’t seen any posts in this thread that suggest that it is, so please, put aside the histrionics. I’ll even take this out of scuba-land for a moment.
I used Kodak film in my SLR cameras for 40 years. And, I shot some damned fine photos, and I processed a lot of my own film. Please, can you tell me where I can buy
Kodak film these days for my Canon F1? Actually, can you tell me happened to Kodak? What was that thing it went through – I think it was called Chapter 11. Could that possibly be because Kodak completely failed to accept the trend toward digital photography?
Likewise, I have some pretty nice stereo equipment, including a high end turntable, and couple of dual drive cassette players – quality ‘stuff’. Can you tell me where I can buy LPs these days, or cassette recordings? Having the equipment was not a waste. I still use it. I have some nice vinyl, and cassettes. But, that has NOTHING TO DO with where the music industry is going, and I would NOT recommend that someone purchasing their first stereo system go out and look for a really great turntable.
vegan shark:
It wasn't arbitrary that jacket BCs came to dominate the market. They're much more convenient,
You are both right and wrong. Yes, it wasn’t arbitrary - it was simply that the initial direction the industry took as it moved away from horse collars was jacket BCDs. Sort of like stereo turntables. But, jacket style BCDs are no more, or less, ‘simple’ or convenient than back-inflate BCDs, including backplates.
vegan shark:
Not to mention jacket BCs have hundreds of options, with lots of stylish designs, whereas BPW is only made by a small group of companies with limited options, and often look bland by comparison.
I readily admit, I don’t know what ‘stylish designs’ you might be looking for. And, if that is your preference, fantastic. Frankly, the majority of divers I teach, and dive with, don’t seem to care care if something looks ‘bland’. They care about how it functions. OK, even some of them like pink cylinders. Again, out of the context of scubaland, on the ski slopes, I can usually spot the more competent skiers from a distance, and a lot of them they look bland. And, I tend to stay away from skiers in neon pink and lime green snowsuits. Nor, do I really know what ‘hundreds of options’ are available with jacket BCDs. But, more to the point, you seem oblivious to what is actually occurring in the equipment marketplace. The number of companies producing backplates is certainly neither small, nor stagnant. It is growing. The shift is sales is actually away from jacket–style BCDs and inexorably moving toward back-inflate units. (And, a BP/W happens to be one style of a back-inflate BCD.) Ten years ago, we sold predominantly jacket-style BCDs – that reflected what was available, NOT what customers specifically wanted – they just bought what was available. Today, we sell predominantly back-inflate units, and often have to special order jackets for the rare customer that wants one (I had to do that for a jacket BCD I bought last Fall). If you were actually involved in the industry and perhaps went to DEMA this year, you would also have noted that a number of companies have begun to come out with ‘soft’ backplates for travel purposes. So, you may want to think about not making statements that primarily reflect what you don’t know about the industry. Just a thought.
vegan shark:
There are instructors out there diving in jackets with perfect trim and comfort; everyone has their own preferences, and nothing wrong with that.
That part I very much agree with, there is nothing wrong with those preferences, both preferences for jackets and preferences for backplates. But, since we are talking about what a diver should consider for their first set of gear, how does what instructors are diving bear any relationship to the discussion? Or, if what instructors are diving DOES have a relationship, then the argument in favor of backplates is made even stronger.
mmadiver:
Majority of military scuba dives utilize the Ranger jacket style BCDs - jacket style has some advantages in form and function over bp/w.
First of all, a Ranger IS NOT a jacket-style BCD. It is a back-inflate BCD (as is a backplate/wing, by the way). Second, to be sure I understand your point, what ‘advantages in form and function’ does a Ranger have over a BP/W? Since I have been diving both for over a decade, I am interested in learning more about them.
Finally,
maniago:
Which is why you should NOT be considering a BPW. The learning curve is far too steep to setup without any kind of assistance. A jacket BCD or back-inflate requires significantly less and that's why most people dive them. You have enough to learn about actually diving without dieing to also have to fart about with your gear. A BPW is high speed - like a crotch rocket.
This is absolute rubbish. There is nothing about a back-inflate BCD, specifically a backplate, that requires a steep learning curve. If you happen to buy a unit that doesn't come assembled, there are videos on the web (check YouTube) that show how to set up a BP, there are videos on manufacturer websites that show how to set them up, you can post on SB and a LOT of people can help. It is not rocket science. And, comparing a BP/W to a crotch rocket is completely nonsensical. A newer diver can use a jacket BCD, a soft back-inflate BCD, and a ‘hard’ BP/W with equal facility.
So, noblesix: to respond to your initial post, I will take similar to a couple of other posters regarding your five initial options:
1. N; 2. N; 3. N; 4. N 5. N The only one that I might possibly consider would be the Cressi, but you didn’t offer ‘Possible’ as an option. I see no need for the i3 technology, if a diver is serious about learning buoyancy and trim control, and becoming a proficient diver. And, remember, these are MY preferences, which may not apply to you.
2. If you are thinking about possibly pursuing DM training and an internship, it might be useful to touch base with the facility where you plan to train, BEFORE buying anything, to get a sense of what they prefer. Different environments have different preferences. If you pursued DM training and internship with our shop, for example, you would NOT use an i3 unit (nor would you use an integrated octo /inflator for that matter).
Because what equipment you dive for recreational diving is a matter of preference, try some different configurations before buying. And, realize that what you buy the first time may not be what you dive for a long time. I see competent divers in ratty threadbare jackets, well worn back-inflates, and backplates and wings that look like they are corroded beyond function.
