1 BCD 2 divers: Is it okay?

[supergaijin]

I have, sadly seen almost the same in the Red Sea.
Some DM/Guides actually just share air with the first diver to run low and then finish the dive when the next diver gets low on air..
That IS with certified divers in their group, but the DM/guide would be seriously inhibited with regards to helping anyone when hes busy buddy breathing with another diver. NOT the kind of dive op I would want to go diving with..

I saw the same working in Sharm and had some pretty heated arguments on the safety of it. One guide I worked with routinely did it with a long hose so the diver wasn't even holding any part of the donor's gear.

I think it's a pretty common practice around the world. If i'm not mistaken it was posted recently in a thread which outlined the DM's code of conduct in Cozumel (if memory serves).

 

[Tigerman]

Although the dive shops in Sharm is generally quite professional, theres been an increase in divers from a certain part of the world thats generally obnoxious and disrespectful and with it, unfortunately it seems like with them theres coming more shops thats focused on getting their money more than considering the enviroment they visit and the safety of the divers and those around them
In that regard I was DELIGHTED to be there shortly after the riots as there was not much people and the divesites better than ever

 

[DevonDiver]

They know the risk. They helped me study by quizzing me over the pressure related injuries section of the test. After reading off "NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH" a few times over with the awesome potential symptoms of "Bloody froth from the mouth", I'm beyond sure they know it. Just in case they don't, I intend to drill it into their head about 6 dozen times over. But, it's a 13 ft pool. I think there's less risk with 1 on 1 then there was with 15 students + 2 instructors who were often busy with something.

SCUBA police, begone.

Risk Assessment needs to be based on informed decision making. Thus far in the thread, you've not demonstrated any particular level of knowledge that qualifies you as 'informed' on the matter of supervising student/untrained divers.

You do however feel qualified to dismiss the advice and prudent guidance of several professional instructors - who make their living from doing exactly that. In my mind, that's demonstrates an incredibly over-zealous appreciation of your capabilities.

At this juncture - I'll also remind you that 'advocating unsafe diving practices' is contrary to the Scubaboard Terms of Service. Perhaps you should spend a little time appreciating what those practices are... and why they are considered unsafe.

The Scuba Police won't be 'begone'... because they don't exist. You are misinterpreting the prudent, well considered advice from experienced and helpful divers as being some sort of regulation. I am sorry to shatter your illusions... but there really is no machine to rage against.

 

[MMM]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

The practice being referred to is contrary to safe diving teachings espoused by virtually all certifying agencies, and particularly so when done by someone without the necessary knowledge, skills and abilities to address the issues they might face. As an unsafe scuba practice, it is contrary to ScubaBoard Terms of Service. However, in the interest of educating people about the dangers of this practice, the post is being allowed to stand so that people with the necessary knowledge, skills and experience can comment on the wisdom of this practice. During a review of the thread, mod messages have been inserted to reiterate this point and some OT posts were deleted.

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[Hawkwood]

KD8NPB,

Diving instruction is to a large degree all about risk management and teaching the students how to handle potential “situations”. Having them breath on the regulator and swim is by far the easiest part of the process.

Each time you get into the pool with a new group of students, there is that little worm niggling away in the back of the brain as to whether one will attempt to “bolt”. How we teach, how we position ourselves, how we use our assistants are geared not only to preventing that from happening in the first place, but also how to deal with it if it does happen. I’m just talking about in the pool (max depth of 12 feet), not to mention in open water. You can easily be injured or die in a few feet of water.

As a trainee Dive Master I learned a lot about positioning for that possible event. As an Instructor, I learned during my training how to keep a student from bolting.

Do you know how to prevent your friend from bolting if something goes wrong? By “something goes wrong”, I mean a whole number of possibilities that you as a new diver are not necessarily aware can cause someone to “bolt”.

Please rethink your plan and instead have your friend do a Discover Scuba or similar program. Heck, we only charge $40. The Instructor takes all the risk, not you.

Bill

 

[Quero]

They know the risk. They helped me study by quizzing me over the pressure related injuries section of the test. After reading off "NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH" a few times over with the awesome potential symptoms of "Bloody froth from the mouth", I'm beyond sure they know it. Just in case they don't, I intend to drill it into their head about 6 dozen times over. But, it's a 13 ft pool. I think there's less risk with 1 on 1 then there was with 15 students + 2 instructors who were often busy with something.

SCUBA police, begone.

Your friend or loved one whom you are presumably contemplating taking into the pool to share one set of scuba gear with may know, intellectually, what the biggest risks of scuba are. However, s/he certainly isn't aware of the risks of getting 'training' from an inexperienced OW diver and is definitely not in a position to weigh those risks when deciding whether to engage in this practice with you.

Perhaps you yourself had a very easy time learning to dive, never felt anxiety about having water in your mask, nailed all the skills the first try, etc. Learning to dive is very easy for some people and with them everything goes right! But not everybody has an easy time, and further, not everybody who struggles has difficulty with the same thing. Scuba instructors are trained to notice subtle clues so that they can prevent problems before they arise, and therefore avoid accidents and injuries. A novice diver like you, KD8NPB, will definitely not be aware of, and therefore on the lookout for, all the little problems that a first-timer might have that can easily trigger an anxiety-panic cycle response and provoke an accident. Even an experienced diver may miss the signals that an instructor works to be hyper-aware of.

Bottom line: the safest way to be introduced to scuba diving is under the care of a trained professional instructor. Diving tandem is risky, and it's especially dangerous when the diver in control of the equipment is inexperienced. Introducing a friend to scuba, even if you both have equipment, is risky if you are not trained to do so.

Don't take the risk.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I actually started teaching my oldest son with one tank. Of course he had to first demonstrate good freediving skills.

I just kept him under my arm. I even hooked up a 5 ft hose so that as he got better at scuba I could give him some slack. I think he was 8 yrs old when I started taking him in open water, sharing a single tank, holding him under my arm. We kept the depth to 15-20 or so. In reality, it was easier to control him like that, plus I was 3 times his size (literally).. don't think it would be so easy to control an adult. We even did a short dive in Maine in 50 degree water like that.. he caught a lobster as I recall.

After several dives, I rigged a 30 cu-ft tank in a backpack (no BC) and we did several more openwater dives like that. We would often share my long hose to extend the dives.

After he mastered that, THEN he got a BC and in a few more years, he got certified at 10 yrs old.

In general, I do not think it is smart to try to teach scuba, if you have not been trained to teach diving.

 

[KD8NPB]

KD8NPB,
Do you know how to prevent your friend from bolting if something goes wrong? By “something goes wrong”, I mean a whole number of possibilities that you as a new diver are not necessarily aware can cause someone to “bolt”.

Please rethink your plan and instead have your friend do a Discover Scuba or similar program. Heck, we only charge $40. The Instructor takes all the risk, not you.

Bill

Easy. I'm practically attached to him. Which is likely a lot closer than any instructor would be in any scuba course, where at a time, 86.6% (I did the math) of the class is unattended.

Didn't we just have a death from a Discover Scuba course?

No thank you, 1 on 1 is safest, and I won't even charge him.

Nobody will die, nothing will happen. We'll screw around for a few minutes, then I'll nag him until he goes and passes his OW. Exact course of events.

 

[supergaijin]

Nobody will die, nothing will happen.

And that attitude is the difference between you and a professional.

 

[Quero]

I give up; it's looking hopeless. KD8NPB sounds like a college-age kid, definitely male, who has a typical late-teen/cusp-of-twenties "I'm a man" attitude. As Alex Pope wrote:

A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again.

In other words, he doesn't know what he doesn't know, yet thinks he knows it all. The more we learn, the more cautious we tend to become as divers.

To the OP--please be smarter than KD8NPB and don't plan on doing this.