A deceptively easy way to die

[Nemrod]

Dynamiting/collapsing Florida springs to close them is like the Boy Scout troop that knocked the rock formation over so that it would not fall on anyone or the mad men who have destroyed ancient works of past civilizations because they do not agree with their religion or whatever excuse one might fabricate. In a free world, if we ever have such a place, it is also free to be stupid and suffer the consequences. N

 

[Bubble_blower87]

Deceptively easy? Most adults would see the danger instantly.

Required viewing? Why, to scare someone out of something 99.9% of them would never consider?

SB needs a new forum - Instructor FUD for Masochists!

This doesn't belong in Basic Scuba. Is there a follow-on of the risks of 300ft dives on air?

I believe Edd Sorenson saved a girl after her OW instructor father took her and her brother into a cave. The father and son were the only two that came out. Lucky for the girl Edd was near by and saved her. This isn't the case for other unlucky individuals. If it's so obvious the danger isn't there why is it that most people who have died in caves weren't trained?

---------- Post added November 28th, 2015 at 02:57 AM ----------

The video got me! Did my open water checkout dives at ginnie springs, did my research on the caves, saw the video, went out and got my cave training and I am now an avid cave diver.

This video is the exact reason I went out and started diving. That and a cave diving documentary about finding bones in the bahamas. I have always been a thrill seeker. I wanted to skydive, I was a professional mixed martial arts fighter, I was a trick bike rider (or so I thought) in my teens. I also plan to get my pilots license in the future. I know its sad to say but for some reason if there's no chance of death, maiming, or dismemberment. I don't want to do it.

 

[spoolin01]

Yea, and so are news reports about uncertified divers killing themselves in caves.

... you've obviously never been to High Springs, Florida. I've only been there a few times, and even I have seen people in the entrances to some of those caves who clearly are barely out OW class ... they're about as basic as you can get, and a lot closer to dying than they realize when they swim inside those holes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

The problem is open water divers coming down to dive the warm water springs from out of state this winter.
Since 1970 over 600 divers have died in the North Florid Springs. Most open water certified only. ...

I wish that were true, but it's not.

For example a couple years ago an OW instructor - let me repeat an OW instructor - took his teen age/young adult kids diving in the cavern at Twin Cave in the Millpond near Marianna.

The title of the video sums up the problem exactly. Getting into a cave isn't hard at all, it's getting out alive that's the problem and cave training focuses on two primary issues - how to avoid problems in the first place, and how to deal with problems and get out of a cave safely when a problem occurs.

The statistic is appalling and sorry shorthand for the tragedy and sorrow it only coldly hints at. I didn't mean to minimize that or the concern of those involved responsibly in that part of the sport. It stands to reason it's an understandably significant concern in that region and for those few, many of whom have been affected by loss. I didn't intend to be dismissive in that regard.

Still, it seems to me most divers will never hear much of cave deaths or think them relevant to themselves, and at any rate will likely think the advice self-evident.

So balancing (another) patronizing invitation to fearfulness in the Basic forum against the arguable impact, it seems just another example of 'another day, not much going on... hey, ring the danger bell!'

Why assault patrons of basic scuba diving with this stuff? Wouldn't it be just as fruitful, maybe more, in Advanced or Cave or Instructor?

It just struck me as gratuitous.

 

[Centrals]

Why assault patrons of basic scuba diving with this stuff? Wouldn't it be just as fruitful, maybe more, in Advanced or Cave or Instructor?
It just struck me as gratuitous.

You want to hammer the warning early. Just like teaching the kid how to cross the road.

 

[Storker]

Why assault patrons of basic scuba diving with this stuff? Wouldn't it be just as fruitful, maybe more, in Advanced or Cave or Instructor?It just struck me as gratuitous.

It's simple: So even "patrons of basic scuba diving" are able to make an informed decision, hopefully to refrain from going into caves or other overhead environments without proper training and gear. AFAIK there are several vacation ops who take poorly qualified, poorly equipped patrons into potentially dangerous environments. I gave you two examples from places pretty far away from Fl. So I don't agree with your premise that this only applies to a marginally small fraction of recreational divers.

Or we could of course pretend that the dangers don't exist. Don't ever tell people that they can in fact die, in a quite uncomfortable way, if they do things wrong. Close your eyes, and the bogeyman will go away.

Trust me, it'll be fine.

 

[spoolin01]

You want to hammer the warning early. Just like teaching the kid how to cross the road.

Hence "patronizing". We're not children, teacher.

It's simple: So even "patrons of basic scuba diving" are able to make an informed decision, hopefully to refrain from going into caves or other overhead environments without proper training and gear. AFAIK there are several vacation ops who take poorly qualified, poorly equipped patrons into potentially dangerous environments. I gave you two examples from places pretty far away from Fl. So I don't agree with your premise that this only applies to a marginally small fraction of recreational divers.

Or we could of course pretend that the dangers don't exist. Don't ever tell people that they can in fact die, in a quite uncomfortable way, if they do things wrong. Close your eyes, and the bogeyman will go away.

Trust me, it'll be fine.

Belaboring the obvious invites unintended consequences. And LOL I don't care how many stories you've got of venturesome dive ops, it's still a small portion of divers who'll ever be led astray.

Maybe the PSA should be recast to warn against irresponsible instructors, and how to spot them.

 

[seeker242]

Of course, and very reasonable. Too bad the first half dozen posts weren't in that vein. But keep hammering the dangers, it's good for the sport.

If people are going to be so stupid as to enter a cave with only basic scuba training, I think it would be good to keep hammering it. Because doing that is plain stupid!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

... you've obviously never been to High Springs, Florida. I've only been there a few times, and even I have seen people in the entrances to some of those caves who clearly are barely out OW class ... they're about as basic as you can get, and a lot closer to dying than they realize when they swim inside those holes ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I agree Bob.

The start of the gold line has changed back and forth over the years and it keeps moving due to open water divers entering the Eye and the Ear.

At present, the lines run all the way into the passages exiting from the gallery to the Eye and the Ear. That appears to be to prevent an OW diver from entering the eye and then getting confused and trying to exit through the next passage to the right, which leads to the catacombs. OW divers have died doing exactly that.

 

[scubadada]

I once really scared myself diving solo just 2 decks below the main deck of the Spiegel Grove when I could not find my overhead hatch to the decks above. I even thought, what will my wife think when they tell her I drowned? Fortunately, I remained calm, turned off my light, and saw pale blue at the end of the long corridor... I've never done anything even remotely similar since this experience. I have tremendous respect for overhead, everyone should.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I once really scared myself diving solo just 2 decks below the main deck of the Spiegel Grove when I could not find my overhead hatch to the decks above.../ /...I remained calm, turned off my light, and saw pale blue at the end of the long corridor...

This example does an excellent job of illustrating how deceptive going into an overhead can be. Consider that had the visibility been a little lower, had the he stirred up silt on the way in, or had he not had the presence of mind to stop before he made a bad situation worse, or had he not though to turn off his light, he'd have died there.

It's a common practice to prepare artificial reefs so that untrained divers can penetrate the wreck with a reduced chance of kacking themselves. However, it will be interesting to see how well that works 20-30 years down the road when many of those same wrecks eventually become silt filled.

It's entirely possible to swim 10 feet into a three sided compartment with a couple hatches in the sides and stir up enough silt that you can't find your way out the open side. A rebreather diver posted his experience with that here several years ago and made it clear that had he not been on a rebreather, with the time to wait for it to clear, and the lack of bubbles needed for it to clear, he'd have never found his way out of the side compartment he'd ended up in.

If you look around you'll find examples in comparatively open wrecks where a pair of divers are swimming through the wreck, the lead diver has a problem and blows the viz, but when they turn around they discover the viz behind them is blown too.

My pet peeve however is that the dive industry works over time to make diving appear to be safe, but does so at the expense of explaining to divers the risks involved and the clearly illustrating the differences and the difference in risk levels between a short swim through in a very open and silt free wreck where you can always see a way out, and a wreck where those critical life and death conditions are not met.

Spoolin seems to be running for poster boy for that very ill conceived market driven approach. Personally it's an industry practice that I think borders on criminal negligence.