A Drysuit is a Drysuit is a Drysuit

[TSandM]

How bad a flooded dry suit is depends on the water temperature and the quality of the undergarments you have -- one of the reasons high end undergarments are as expensive as they are is that they are designed to remain warm when wet. In general, in water temperatures like what you'r'e describing, you would want to end the dive if you got really wet, unless you had to do a deco obligation (which is why long deco obligations in very cold water are to be considered carefully). Most of the time, though, you don't fully flood the suit. You just have a leak that will result in a wet arm or leg, which is a nuisance and does decrease your comfort, but isn't usually a disaster.

Neoprene suits are intrinsically warm. They require less undergarment. But they have buoyancy swings, are less insulating at depth, are heavier, take longer to dry, and generally can't be fitted with latex seals, which means no dry gloves.

Laminate suits require undergarments, but you can, as has already been discussed, change what you wear under them for the water temperature. I wear just a base layer in water in the 80's, a base layer with a Lands End fleece sweatsuit in 75 degrees, 200g Thinsulate in the high 60's, and my full-on multilayered individual down sleeping bag undergarment setup for water in the 40's. Laminate suits dry very quickly (how fast depends on how smooth the outer material is) and they are lighter to pack for travel. They can be fitted with neoprene or latex seals, or rings for user-replaceable seals.

 

[Aqua-Andy]

This is a repost from a previous thread. I think it should be stickied and maybe it will be updated over time.


The best and worst of your dry suit

This is probably one of the best drysuit threads I have seen in a long time. Just honest opinions of drysuits people actually own. Hopefully it will help you out some.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

I tried tech diving in a wetsuit for a few years. After shivering uncontrollably during and after a long deco I broke down and went dry. I bought a Poseidon rubber suit that was way too big for me. I dived it twice before selling it. DUI TLS350 was the most popular drysuit in the DIR crowd fifteen years ago so I thought I'd try one. I made 100 dives in it. It leaked on 95 of them. I bought a cheap USIA bilam suit on Ebay for $300 including undergarment. I had a few leaks, but the suit was very easy to repair with black duct tape. I finally gave that suit away and bought a used Diving Concepts crushed neoprene suit. It was OK, but it was already on its last legs.
I then bought a new Diving Concepts crushed neoprene suit. It doesn't fit well and has a rear zipper, but it doesn't leak. It is now my backup suit. I was making a lot of beach dives over boulders and surf, so I bought a Cordura/crushed neoprene DC suit. I've used it for the past seven years. I have dry gloves and neoprene neck seals on each Diving Concepts suit.
I saw a great deal on a new DUI Cordura suit on Ebay last year and bought it. I've only made one dive on it, but it remained dry. It has a ZipSeal neck and drygloves. If I can ever figure out how to get the gloves on and off quickly it may become my primary suit.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

I guess I'm still not clear on the differences between neoprene and trilam suits. I thought that neoprene suits were more inherently warm, but that they didn't allow for as wide a range of undergarments since they were more tight fitting? I'm mainly looking for a suit good from the 50s down to 30s.

Extra features like great pockets, place for keys, boots that are easy to get on, are nice, but it seems weird that such minor features would warrant a price difference of $1000+. For that price the pockets better make me breakfast in bed too

Well. To put this in simple words you have the part right where you say neoprene is warmer without the undergarment. Neoprene also has the ability to stretch, so a tighter fitting is possible without restricting body movement. Unfortunately it is more profitable for drysuit companies to make loose "stock sizes" to fit the widest rang of population in one size. This robs a neoprene suit of its strongest advantage of tighter fitting. In certain suits, the stock sizes are designed to be so loose that if a leaner built person wears them, they are diving with a lot of space in the suit. It is not the neoprene that is causing them to need more lead but bad fitting caused by the greedy marketing strategy of trying to fit the whole population in a pre-determined "stock size." This is why I believe going custom when it comes to neoprene suits.

The buoyancy differences that have been mentioned earlier should be no more than what a wetsuit diver experiences. Furthermore the neoprene that I would look for in a drysuit is CR 100 (Compression resistant neoprene without anything added into the molten mixture to cause extra stretch). This does not compress as much and is suited for drysuits as shown in this chart. Look at the properties of C-form and D-form in the table:

Characteristics and uses of neoprene foam.

This picture shows a CR-100 neoprene suit that I test dove last month. (I am on the left). As you can see it fits tighter more like a wetsuit would. This dive happened when it was getting insanely cold because of "Polar Vortex." Some of my buddies with extremely expensive suits and over priced undergarments terminated the dive and sat out that day. I am wearing a Walmart 300 gram polartec underneath that I got for less than 60 USD. This picture was taken right after we came out of water and do I look like a cold man?



I will be going under ice in a few weeks in Canada. It will be this suit and a 300 gram polartec that I got from Walmart.

 

[Vegan Shark]

So dry gloves can only be used with certain types of suits? What is the difference in seal options?

 

[BRT]

How bad a flooded dry suit is depends on the water temperature and the quality of the undergarments you have -- one of the reasons high end undergarments are as expensive as they are is that they are designed to remain warm when wet. In general, in water temperatures like what you'r'e describing, you would want to end the dive if you got really wet, unless you had to do a deco obligation (which is why long deco obligations in very cold water are to be considered carefully). Most of the time, though, you don't fully flood the suit. You just have a leak that will result in a wet arm or leg, which is a nuisance and does decrease your comfort, but isn't usually a disaster.

Neoprene suits are intrinsically warm. They require less undergarment. But they have buoyancy swings, are less insulating at depth, are heavier, take longer to dry, and generally can't be fitted with latex seals, which means no dry gloves.

Laminate suits require undergarments, but you can, as has already been discussed, change what you wear under them for the water temperature. I wear just a base layer in water in the 80's, a base layer with a Lands End fleece sweatsuit in 75 degrees, 200g Thinsulate in the high 60's, and my full-on multilayered individual down sleeping bag undergarment setup for water in the 40's. Laminate suits dry very quickly (how fast depends on how smooth the outer material is) and they are lighter to pack for travel. They can be fitted with neoprene or latex seals, or rings for user-replaceable seals.

Why can't they be fitted with latex seals? I own 2 neoprene suits that are. Si Tech means I can replace them in a few minutes for cheap anytime I want to.

 

[swimmer_spe]

The only question is: What makes one drysuit better than another?

Crushed neoprene, trilam, P-valves, changeable seals, dry gloves, dry hoods ... the list of options is baffling for a first timer! The price differences are especially confusing. What separates a $1000 entry drysuit, like the Scubapro, Pinnacle, or Whites, to a $3000 suit like Santi, Waterproof, or FE?

If the only purpose of a drysuit is to block out water, then so long as the seals are fitted properly a $3000 suit won't be warmer than a $1000 suit, right? Is the extra $ all about durability and design, or are you paying a brand name tax?

What is the difference between anything of varying price?

Quality and fit.

I have a dry suit, and I love how warm it keeps me. I hate how it fits.

I know others who have other issues.

I know the next dry suit I buy, I am going to try it on wearing what I wear under it, and then put gear on/off, and then do some contortion moves (I am not that flexible...) If it binds up before I stop moving, I am not getting it.

After a few dives, you will love certain things, and maybe hate others.

 

[Desert_Pirate]

I love my so tech glove system... but answering he question how bad is a flooded dry suit?last weekend river dive I left a few threads of undergarments in my zipper that proptly
Filled my dive rite suit with 35 degree water, dive was aborted.

 

[Peter_C]

I won't bother with my thoughts on a drysuit since they are posted in the best and worst of your drysuit thread.

BIG pockets are in order, especially diving locally. Santi, Halcyon, and others make some awesome pockets.

Dry gloves are in order. Keep them tight to your fingers for better dexterity. It should take some work to get them on and off your hands (I am not talking about the rings).

Otter Bay hands down has the best 12mm wet hood for diving dry, and they just happen to be in Monterey.

 

[KD8NPB]

My 3mm neoprene drysuit is not any hotter than my 3mm neoprene wetsuit when I wear it with zero undergarments. Both are 3mm neoprene. Unless you are diving in extremely hot weather, like skin burning desert conditions (where a drysuit would not be needed anyway,) I do not see overheating in a neoprene suit as a problem. It could be if it is a 7mm neoprene though.

I would have to go back into my test logs to confirm this but from what I recall, my USIA bi-lam shell suit needed the exact same weight to dive with minimal undergarments as my 3mm neoprene because it would cause suit-squeeze especially in my crotch area. This was a problem with a lot of shell suits. In order to be comfortable, I needed to pump air and that would kill any theoretical buoyancy advantage a shell suit is advertised to have over a neoprene suit.

Now when it came to loading up on undergarments for colder waters that is when neoprene actually needed LESS lead than my USIA bi-lam. In my USIA, I was needing to layer with way too much undergarment and I was still cold and shivering. With 3mm neoprene, I was wearing a Walmart 300gram polartec and I could stay indefinitely in 38-39 degree waters. But then all neoprene suits are also not the same. In order for a neoprene suit to sink with less lead, it has to be a custom made suit that clings to your body like a wetsuit. This eliminates the air pockets inside making it possible to sink with little lead. A lot of "Stock sizes" in neoprene suits are still cut loose like a shell suit and then they create the same air pockets that make shell suits a miserable experience to dive in.

USIA suits retain air due to them being cut from a cheap pattern. Not only that, but the company uses substandard material in a glued construction, ultimately producing a suit that only lasts a few years of service before the seams start to fail, or the crotch/armpits wear through.

A Walmart 300g thinsulate setup will not offer low bulk and high insulation like drysuit specific underwear. I used to layer like that. I discovered it completely compromised my mobility and made valve drills nearly impossible. Dive specific underwear is cut to allow arm & leg movement, while bulking up the torso.

Other hidden downside:
Neoprene & rough trilaminate suits gets stinky. The surface of the material traps contaminants / bacteria.

Smooth exterior drysuits (polyurethane or vulcanized) are easy to clean, since they contain no pores.