air integrated worth 2x the price

[RJP]

is it really worth it to cough up the extra dough and get a computer that features air integration?

Money and air are quite similar in one respect:

If you have enough, there's no problem. If you're running low, you've got decisions to make.



Personally I like having the AI on my Cobra. You'd need a presure gauge anyway, why not have it all in one streamline unit and be able to see everything you'd need to know all in a glance.

Also, I like being able to go through the logbook on the computer after the dive ans see how much air I used, etc. (I invariably forget to note it on a boat before changing tanks.

As to wireless, that's another decision that is about your own personal comfort. Could it die during a dive and you lose the signal to see tank pressure? Sure, but that shouldn't be a problem, because as with any piece of equipment if it fails, you thumb the dive.

Do SPG's have less potential to fail than an AI computer? Maybe. Probably. But you're talking about the difference between "almost never" and "rarely if ever."

 

[Chad_Ordelheide]

It's great to plan you dives, but unless you know the exact topography of where your diving along with depths, you really can't plan an exact multi level dive. IMO a computer is a no-brainer decision. You almost always get a lot more BT than without. So, if your going to have a computer why no have everything in one place? Then you not checking you air and your wrist. Even though it's true that when you dive a lot you kinda know when it's time to head home anyway. If you looking at Suunto products, remember they seem to be a bit more conservative! You might not get as much dive time as other computers. If you still like the idea of an AI, also look at the Sherwood Wisdom! Happy Diving!

 

[dnhill]

I like the AI feature and did not mind spending the money on it. I did get a great deal on one however. So the answer is for me it was worth it.

dnhill

 

[PerroneFord]

IMO a computer is a no-brainer decision.

Prophetic

You almost always get a lot more BT than without.

Sometimes too much.

If you looking at Suunto products, remember they seem to be a bit more conservative! You might not get as much dive time as other computers.

Nature of RGBM. But I don't know any VPM/B computers in the recreational range. And the Buhlman computers are what everyone seems to like. What is ironic to me, is that there have been monumental strides in the last 10-20 years of trying to understand how DCS comes about, about how bubbles form and are dissipated in the body, and yet the great majority of divers casually dismiss all this work because it takes away 7 minutes of bottom time on a 50 minute dive.

I'm still waiting on a recreational computer that does deep stops. And YES I know the D9 does them, but for the price, I can get a VR3.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

I don't do a lot of ocean diving, so I guess I am somewhat confused as to how current makes you use more gas to ascend. I guess if your breathing rate increases it would. Is that what you mean? As for rockbottom calcs, we learned it in class. Actually, the term rockbottom is no longer used. It's "minimum gas" now.




Hmmm... I guess the air integrated computer could show me my instant SAC rate. However if something is pushing my SAC rate up, I'm really not going to be staring at the computer screen, I'm going to be problem solving.

A lot of AI computers will tell you how much time you have left before you must begin an ascent to finish your dive with a preset ending tank pressure. They use your current depth and your current gas usage to make the calculation. This can be handy, but one shouldn't confuse it with rock bottom.

I love my Smart Tec, but I paid keyman pricing for it. I'm not sure I would have sprung for it at full retail. I have never had any issues with the wrist computer not picking up the transmitter. And I love seeing my SAC rate calculated for me when I download the dives,

I reccomend everyone read up on the latest in deco theory and keep the limitations of computers in mind. I.e. I use Vplanner on wetnotes for "serious" dives. . .[FONT=&quot][/FONT]

 

[PerroneFord]

xiSkiGuy,

The problem is that not only are people not looking at the various deco models, they aren't gas planning. AT ALL. A poster in this thread actually suggested surfacing immediately if my computer fails. WTH? Most dives I don't even WEAR a computer. Another poster said they change their entire dive plan if they encounter current. What happens if that current picks up just before you begin your ascent?

Having AI can be useful to people who already understand gas management. But that doesn't seem to be the norm. From what I've seen, it seems to be getting used in lieu of good gas planning by "reading how much time is left" on the screen. That time on the screen won't help if you get snagged in fishing line, or if your buddy suddenly blows a LP hose (or worse you do), or if the current suddenly starts ripping.

The entire idea of computer diving seems to be to maximize bottom time at the expense of good gas planning. Because from what I can tell, if you are actually managing your gas properly, and you're diving the common AL80 tank, you won't get anywhere NEAR the bottom time your Buhlmann computer says you can have.

 

[immersed]

The entire idea of computer diving seems to be to maximize bottom time at the expense of good gas planning.

No, it's worse than that - the entire idea of computer diving is to maximize bottom time at the expense of NDL conservatism.

You're right about the AL80 - for the first tank. But even a hoover can blow the tables with 3 tanks and a 60 foot floor.

When I first started diving, my AI computer was an invaluable tool to me to give me real-time biofeedback on how to breathe to maximize my air. I like that I don't have to manually record starting and ending pressures in my log book. I like the digital display as opposed to a needle. I, too, like that my SAC rate is automatically calculated so I don't have to do it myself. I've done enough dives that I know before I look at the display what my pressure and remaining airtime are likely to be, but I still find it to be a handy reference, a convenience that enhances my diving. Would I be happy diving on a watch and SPG? Yes, I would. This is just icing on the cake.

Is it worth the price difference? To some it is, some it isn't. I have to agree that if you're on a budget, AI pretty much has to go into the luxury column. I selected almost all of my equipment after my last checkout dive, after much research and anticipating what sort of diving was likely to interest me - the goal was to not have to replace equipment to add features as I evolved as a diver. At this point, I don't see any reason that I won't be just as happy with my computer in 5 or 6 years as I am today. When I divide its price by 10 years, it's a good investment - to me.

So I'm curious, PF, why did you spend money on a computer if you only use it in gauge mode? I understand why so many divers find computers completely superfluous (because they are), but I'm not understanding why you'd buy a computer that you don't plan to use.

 

[cerich]

Prophetic




Sometimes too much.




Nature of RGBM. But I don't know any VPM/B computers in the recreational range. And the Buhlman computers are what everyone seems to like. What is ironic to me, is that there have been monumental strides in the last 10-20 years of trying to understand how DCS comes about, about how bubbles form and are dissipated in the body, and yet the great majority of divers casually dismiss all this work because it takes away 7 minutes of bottom time on a 50 minute dive.

I'm still waiting on a recreational computer that does deep stops. And YES I know the D9 does them, but for the price, I can get a VR3.

Dude.... stop being such a snob!

The simple truth is that for recreational "no deco"(or no required stop) diving simple statistical empirical proof of suitability has occurred with computers. The DSAT (PADI) tables also have no VPM/RGBM like characteristics yet are the most dove tables out there. They have a proved safety record for the average diver. If you are purchasing a computer for that type of diving, more conservative IS a negative in your purchasing. There has been lots of deco study in the last 10-20 years and outside of technical diving or those pushing the envelope with "no deco/no required stop" type dives (every dive to the limit on time and/or depth) there are no PROVED safety advantages. It is theory and marketing. The individuals physiology on a given day has more bearing on possible "bubble trouble" than choice of computer as does other aspects like fast assent, hydration, skip safety stop, etc.

 

[Dave in PA]

My humble opinion is that yes, TO ME, AI is worth the extra money. My first dive instrument was an Oceanic VT Pro. Nice big numbers, very intuitive to read. A few years later, I picked up an Uwatec Smart Tec. More information, 3 gases. I am transitioning to tech diving this year and have an SPG on my doubles. I plan my dives on a laptop, and then use my computer as a back up, and plan validation. I was thinking about selling the VT Pro, but decided against it. It is too good of a computer to get rid of. My son uses it now and I can take it in gauge mode as a back up on tech dives.

You plan a dive or dives based on what you think is going to happen. A dive computer, especially with air integration will tell you what is happening during the dive. I distrusted electronic devices especially wireless ones underwater when I first started diving. Electricity and water don't mix, right? I quickly changed my mind as I experienced them. The biggest piece of advice I can give is: Make sure what the return/repair policy is at the place you buy it from. The primary reason is the computer is a pricey piece of equipment to have to eat the cost of if, for some reason it has a problem. If it has to go back, ask if they have a loaner program, so you don't miss any dives while it is out for repairs.

 

[Diver0001]

I've gone through all kinds of "stages" of using the computer since I bought one. My first computer, which I bought in something like 1997 or 1998 was an air integrated model. I bought an AI computer because a friend of mine without one said that he thought seeing the tank pressure on the computer would be a big benefit. He had a computer long before I did so I followed his advice and bought it.

I certainly didn't dislike it. It displayed pressure in 1/2 bar increments and the screen was easy to read. At first I removed my spg and then replaced it again after one computer failure and one winter of diving and finding out that the transmitter didn't work very well in water under about 5C (which it is for several months of the year here).

So I ended up with the computer *and* the spg. At first I didn't refer much to the SPG because I preferred to contort into all manner of yoga-type positions to get the computer to pick up the transmitter in cold water. All the movement made me cold though, so I clipped off my spg where I could see it easily and only checked the computer from time to time to see if the pressure was flashing or if it was picking up the transmitter.

It was an air only computer so when I started diving Nitrox I also stopped looking at the NDL number and just concentrated on the depth and time, just like old days. I referred to my spg and watched the flashing "no signal" incicator a lot and practiced my yoga but found myself with a computer that was bent 1/2 the time and running in gauge mode and my spg where I could see it without flapping about.

In fact I had gone full circle and reduced my AI computer to a $800 electronic bottom timer. Given that I spent a fair amount of money on that computer, this was hard to admit, but that's what had happened.

So I sold it and with the money I bought a 2nd hand Vytec from someone who wanted to buy a D9 and this time with no AI .... and guess what .... I haven't missed it for a second.

So looking back, aside from being able to sell it for enough to buy a Vytec, that computer cost me about $500 more than it was really worth. I don't know how much AI computers cost today but back then they were expensive.

So....no. Not worth the extra $500. AI is a nice feature if it would cost $24.95 but not for what they sell it for.

R..