Back inflate BCD good for beginner ?

[Crush]

I should also mention that if you are properly weighted, the discussion about back inflate BCs having more of a tendency to push you face forward at the surface is also pretty moot.

It can be shown that the rear-inflate does not "push" you forward so much as those two huge weights on your waist are "pulling" you forward because they are in sliding pockets that have slid forward during your dive. Be sure to put some weights on your rig.

But better yet, skip the whole BC market, and go straight to a BP/W set up. It will cost you less in the long run (and often, even up front if you aren't buying a halcyon unit) to buy the right equipment from the start.

+1. Smaller rig = easier to fly with.

 

[socc]

Thanks all of you for your helpful advice.

So here is my next question. How much lift do I need. In the UK most of the time I dive in fresh water with a dry suit. I use about 10 kilos of weight. However, I would also like to dive in warmer water like in the sea of Greece with a wet suit where I usually use about 7-8 kilos. So I want to buy a BCD that can do both. Something like 18 kilos of lift ?

 

[undrwater]

That's actually where a backplate / wing combo can actually come in handy. You can have a higher lift wing for your cold water diving, and a lower lift wing for tropical / warm water diving. Finding a happy medium is possible, just less optimal.

 

[victorzamora]

I think 30 pounds of lift is as much as any single-tank diver would need. Especially with a drysuit, you shouldn't need super high lift values. 18kg isn't too high, but is certainly more than enough.

What do you think of the idea of migrating towards a backplate/wing? It's less positive naturally than a typical BCD meaning less lead on your belt. They're infinitely customizable, cheaper, and simple. Reliability is the main feature that drew me towards backplate/wings as there's nothing to really fail on them. They tend to pack smaller/lighter for travel, too. My wife has a relatively high end "Travel" BCD and it packs no smaller than her backplate/wing.

 

[JohnN]

Thanks all of you for your helpful advice.

So here is my next question. How much lift do I need. In the UK most of the time I dive in fresh water with a dry suit. I use about 10 kilos of weight. However, I would also like to dive in warmer water like in the sea of Greece with a wet suit where I usually use about 7-8 kilos. So I want to buy a BCD that can do both. Something like 18 kilos of lift ?

If you ditch that BCD, you'll likely find you need much less weight. . .

Your wing should be big enough to float your gear at the surface.


If you'll excuse me using those silly Imperial units (where did we get them anyway ?? )

I have a 32 lb wing. Figure 6 lbs for the BP, another 2 for the regulators, my cold water tanks are 13 lbs negative when full.

In cold water I carry 20 lbs of lead (10 can be dumped). (41 lbs - 10 lbs) = 31 lbs. I'm golden

In warm water with a 3 mm shortie wetsuit diving an AL80, I need no additional weight


This is the smallest wing (for me) to do dual duty.

 

[socc]

Alright I see. Thanks ! How can I calculate how much lift I need and also where can I find a guide to put the BP/W togehter ?

 

[Crush]

I have a 30 lb lift wing which I use in cold and warm water in a single-tank configuration. I could get a smaller wing for warm water but I can't be bothered. I would however stay away from the "hybrid" wings which are designed for use with either a single tank or doubles.

---------- Post added October 16th, 2014 at 12:12 PM ----------

Here is one "gear coonfigurator" at Deep Sea Supply: https://www.deepseasupply.com/index.php?&page=rig_configurator Deep Sea Supply has a very good reputation on SB.

While BP&Ws are highly customizable I think that there are some combinations of backplate and wing that don't work well together because of incompatible hole or slot placements. Going with a single supplier for both BP and W will help to ensure compatibility of hole placement.

I can't help you with lift calculations but I am sure that you can search that out.

In addition to wing lift you will need to decide what size BP you want (S, M, L or XL) and what material you want it to be made of. I opted for aluminum since I travel. Stainless steel or "SS" is heavier, but many on SB love it because it allows you to carry less lead (your total gear weight is the same).

Stainless steel book screws can be used to attach your wing to your stainless steel or aluminum backplate. While they are not necessary (the wing is held in place when the tank is attached), I opted for book screws so that my wing doesn't shift up or down when I change tanks.

Finally the wing can be wing-shaped or toroidal (an elongated ring). I like the toroidal design since I can vent air from both sides of the bladder through one vent (when I am inverted) but I am not sure that it really makes that much of a difference.

 

[socc]

Hello guys ! Thank you for your replies. I cannot really find how to calculate how much lift I need so if anyway can provide a link that would really help.

In addition, I was looking at the Aeris Jetback (Aeris Jetpack | Simply Scuba UK) which has about 30 lbs of lift. So I am not sure if that lift is enough for my dry suit dives and also since it is being described as travel BCD I do not know if its materials are good enough for diving in UK. Can anyone advice me on that ? Has anyone dive or own this BCD ? Is it a good one ?

Thanks you,

Socc

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The jet pack is a good travel BC. It is not designed for drysuit diving in cold water. If you want more info on setting up a BPW and the options shoot me your email. I have an article on using one for new divers. It's too big to post here. It also covers setting one up and adjusting it. Most places you would likely purchase one from, including me, offer the option to thread the harness on the plate. After that the adjustments can take a little time but they are very simple ones.

Attaching the wing is also simple since it's held on either by a single tank adapter (STA) or the cam bands where you have one that does not require a STA. As I understand it UK diving is not like diving in the Caribbean. While the jet pack is well constructed for travel it also is made to double as a back pack. The materials are not as rugged as a wing and 4 meters or so of 2 inch webbing on a steel plate. The plate will also allow you to drop anywhere from 2-4 kilos of lead since it is a steel plate and it does not have the inherent buoyancy built in by useless padding and poorly designed bladders that trap air. A "feature" common to many jacket, and even back inflate, BC's.

Calculating lift is one of those areas that is no more than a general idea and very personal. My own method is one described in the Six Skills by Steve Lewis and involves a fish scale and actually putting your gear in the water. Highly recommend the book.

Personally I want enough lift to float my rig and allow me a margin of safety should I have to assist another diver. Simple answer is a 30-35 lb wing is sufficient for any single tank configuration I would use including heavy steels.

Weighting is a critical component of drysuit diving. One thing to keep in mind is that no matter what you have heard or been taught, using the dry suit as a back up buoyancy device is wrong. Ask the mfg's if they recommend the suit as a buoyancy device and if they have a procedure for it. Been having this conversation with someone in the context of the new course I may be writing if the outline is approved. The mfg's will not state that it is. So in that vein consider that in your lift calc's and the addition of a lift bag or SMB with sufficient lift should your BC fail. Overweighting can result in you having to put so much air in the suit in the event of a BC failure that in an emergency on ascent it'll just bubble out of your neck seal.

Using a steel plate and getting that lead off of your belt or out of the integrated pockets of a standard BC is going to allow you to be safer as well since you'll only carry enough on a belt to weight you in the drysuit alone. That way the suit is not overloaded. Use a belt with individual pockets and you can just drop a kilo or so should you need to. You don't even want to have the risk of 1/4 to 1/3 or more of your weight coming out should one of the integrated weight pockets fail.

Speaking of weight, the BPW will be a lot lighter and easier to move around on land if it's not full of lead plus the tank and regs.

 

[socc]

The jet pack is a good travel BC. It is not designed for drysuit diving in cold water. If you want more info on setting up a BPW and the options shoot me your email. I have an article on using one for new divers. It's too big to post here. It also covers setting one up and adjusting it. Most places you would likely purchase one from, including me, offer the option to thread the harness on the plate. After that the adjustments can take a little time but they are very simple ones.

Attaching the wing is also simple since it's held on either by a single tank adapter (STA) or the cam bands where you have one that does not require a STA. As I understand it UK diving is not like diving in the Caribbean. While the jet pack is well constructed for travel it also is made to double as a back pack. The materials are not as rugged as a wing and 4 meters or so of 2 inch webbing on a steel plate. The plate will also allow you to drop anywhere from 2-4 kilos of lead since it is a steel plate and it does not have the inherent buoyancy built in by useless padding and poorly designed bladders that trap air. A "feature" common to many jacket, and even back inflate, BC's.

Calculating lift is one of those areas that is no more than a general idea and very personal. My own method is one described in the Six Skills by Steve Lewis and involves a fish scale and actually putting your gear in the water. Highly recommend the book.

Personally I want enough lift to float my rig and allow me a margin of safety should I have to assist another diver. Simple answer is a 30-35 lb wing is sufficient for any single tank configuration I would use including heavy steels.

Weighting is a critical component of drysuit diving. One thing to keep in mind is that no matter what you have heard or been taught, using the dry suit as a back up buoyancy device is wrong. Ask the mfg's if they recommend the suit as a buoyancy device and if they have a procedure for it. Been having this conversation with someone in the context of the new course I may be writing if the outline is approved. The mfg's will not state that it is. So in that vein consider that in your lift calc's and the addition of a lift bag or SMB with sufficient lift should your BC fail. Overweighting can result in you having to put so much air in the suit in the event of a BC failure that in an emergency on ascent it'll just bubble out of your neck seal.

Using a steel plate and getting that lead off of your belt or out of the integrated pockets of a standard BC is going to allow you to be safer as well since you'll only carry enough on a belt to weight you in the drysuit alone. That way the suit is not overloaded. Use a belt with individual pockets and you can just drop a kilo or so should you need to. You don't even want to have the risk of 1/4 to 1/3 or more of your weight coming out should one of the integrated weight pockets fail.

Speaking of weight, the BPW will be a lot lighter and easier to move around on land if it's not full of lead plus the tank and regs.

Hi Jim. Many thanks for your reply ! I am just looking for a back inflate BC with 30-35 lbs of lift - I suppose thats about what I need in terms of lift. Do you have any suggestions for me ? All the BCs that I have found with that life are mainly travel BCs which again seem to lack in durability for cold water diving.

Thanks,

socc