If you're going to insist on saying that, I'm going to insist on challenging you about it. :biggrin: If you can get a crash dummy, I'll put together a constant-force tow rig and meet you to actually run the numbers for real. How about somewhere around west Texas? (If we can't get the dummy, we could use a diver, provided they could relax and *not* *kick* -- it's harder than you'd think.Air On:
)I don't have the software or the processors to run a CFD (Computational Fluid Dynamics) simulation on it, so let's just go out and do a real-world test. Nothing like MythBusters, with their *very* poor experimental design. Let's so some *real* experimental analysis. I'm willing to put in the time and effort to put this to rest. I *quite* anticipate that the results will show how minuscule the difference truly is, but as a scientist and engineering grad, if the numbers show that I am mistaken, I'll be more than happy to have been proven wrong, as it will have added data to the sum of human knowledge (not to mention, to my own).
If you don't want to assist me in testing the incremental induced drag of standard octo vs. inflator/octo, I merely ask you that you refrain from making assertions regarding that drag. Feel free to state opinions, but don't claim facts -- "I think", "I feel", "as I see it", and the like aren't "weasel words"; they're how to let the readers know what you believe when you don't have actual data to directly support it. (That way we don't start even more old divers' tales.) I have nothing against inflator/octos, and I have openly accepted various reasons for using them. Unsubstantiated pseudo-scientific claims, on the other hand, excite me -- I am not "upset" when they are made, but I cannot in good conscience allow them to stand unchallenged. :biggrin:
Those divers facing the most inherent danger from getting their gear caught are wreck divers and cave divers, wouldn't you agree? They're also the divers least likely to use integrated inflator/octos. On the other hand, they use bungeed backups, which are, in principle, rather similar. Both are on a short for-my-use-only hose. They use those long hoses, however, which strongly implies that hose length does not necessarily equate with entanglement and entrapment.Air On:
Of course, there are also the bad divers who find a way to get caught on things...
And there the bad divers are again. I hope they practice with their inflator/octos enough that they don't hurt themselves, since things like manual inflation can be more complicated (as was demonstrated to me by several struggling students last weekend). It's really not "harder", but then again, how hard is stowing your octo? (If you make the point one way, you must accept it the other, eh?)QUOTE=Air On]One less peice of equipment to maintain and purchase.[/QUOTE]In terms of number of second stages (two) and number of inflators (one), they're identical, just in a different package. In terms of initial purchase, you have to buy the inflator/octo, just like you'd have to buy a regular octo -- if you buy it with the BC, they just keep the standard inflator. In terms of initial purchase with the deals AquaLung and others have been having, you can get an inflator/octo free with a new BC, but you can get a standard octo free with a new reg. Looks pretty much like a wash there, too.Air On:
Anyway, if I've said it once, I've said it dozens of times. I have nothing against inflator/octos. If it makes you happy to dive one, by all means, use it! We're not commercial divers (generally speaking, at least); we don't dive because it's a job -- we dive to have fun. It's perfectly reasonable (and perhaps even desirable) to choose to dive a configuration "because I want to."
The *only* time I'll pipe up is when the discussion moves onto reasons to do or not to something. "Because" is fair, and I'll accept it without justification. However, if reasons are suggested, I will support and dispute them based on what I know and in as humble and non-confrontational an attitude as possible (civility and respect are far too often omitted, as evidenced by even some ScubaBoarders). I've had my opinions and beliefs challenged many times, and I've grown to be a better diver and resource because of it. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, and of course there's nothing permanent about being right.
Well, whatever.
(And lest you take the fact that I only replied to the parts I challenged as being a sign that I'm a belligerent jerk who's as full of himself as some of our most unpleasant fellows, it means nothing of the sort! I found your post quite interesting and enlightening regarding how you use and view your gear config (which is at points similar to mine and at points quite disparate from it), and I *loved* the stories and identified with being in a different-than-theirs gear config. I think you whispered a bit later than I, but I was about to become a "rescue victim" -- he was about to drown me! I only replied at length to the parts I did as they were the parts about which I had comments to raise.)
