Can you "borrow" the crewpack for PADI OW?

[Don Wray]

I include the cost of learning materials in the overall fee...and, I don't sell equipment. If you don't have it, I'll loan it to you for the course, except booties and I don't sell those either.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

I'm pushing the girlfriend to get certified,

Something in the way you phrase this sounds concerning. "You are pushing the girlfriend..." Now, if you had said, "I'm encouraging my girlfriend to give scuba diving a shot," I'd be much less concerned. Only you can now, but I really hope there is some part of her that actually wants to get certified....

 

[boulderjohn]

As 300 Bar said, the knowledge reviews no longer need to be handed in; the instructor jsut needs to certify that you completed them. (This change saved tons of useless paper use and storage.) However, if a used book had the KR's taken out back when they were required, it will not do you a lot of good.

The reason for the required Hologram in some areas (chiefly Caribbean area) is that many resorts in those areas were loaning students books for the class. I got my OW training in such a resort. A few weeks after being certified, I wanted to go back and look some stuff up in the book and regretted not owning it. In all classes I have taken since then, I have gone back on at least one later occasion to check some information.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Thanks for the replies...

it seems like the optimal strategy is:
1) Buy crewpack
2) Write responses on paper
3) Sell crewpack after course at slight discount in mostly-new condition

Apparently instructors aren't supposed to allow #2, in a couple PADI courses I took in the past few months both instructors said PADI made them accept the originals.

 

[knotical]

The Open Water Diver Course Instructor Guide says students must have, in their possession, a personal set of materials for study and use during the course and for reference afterward.

This allows families to share, but not others.

 

[knotical]

Apparently instructors aren't supposed to allow #2, in a couple PADI courses I took in the past few months both instructors said PADI made them accept the originals.

Both instructors were in error. PADI does not require that. PADI tells instructors to "go over" the Knowledge Reviews.

 

[NoVaScuba]

A few weeks after being certified, I wanted to go back and look some stuff up in the book and regretted not owning it. In all classes I have taken since then, I have gone back on at least one later occasion to check some information.

Yes, I've got a mental list of things I want to review. A lot of it is what all the alphabet soup stands for. There's always a new language for a new hobby.

 

[oly5050user]

You may not like it - and it's up for debate whether the policy makes sense or not - but the shop that let you share crew-packs is in violation of PADI standards, which require each student to have their own book.

if it is a couple or family then there is no problem with them sharing the text.each person is to have a training log book and rdp of their own.As to ripping pages out,they can handwrite or photocopy kr's...at the LDS that I currently teach at we have online access to KR's on our website and encourage students to use it at no charge along with materials from crewpack and dvd.They complete kr's online and submit them.The kr's are emailed back to them corrected and they print it out and bring to class.
The idea of each person having their own text is for future reference use and to have them start a library that they can refer to at anytime.

 

[DevonDiver]

When dive shops/instructors process student certifications, they are audited against the number of crewpacks that have purchased. PADI dive shops are governed by a standard that required every student to possess a crewpack.

To further complicate the matter, the crewpacks are normally linked with the 'credit' for your certification (yes, your cert card costs money). With online pic certifications, there is a credit attached to the crewpack. With paper pic applications, the pic envelop itself comes with the crewpack.

If you purchase a crewpack for cheap, then you must make sure that it has the pic application envelop inside. Otherwise, the dive shop will just have to sell you another crewpack so that you have the credit for the certification fee.

Without the pic credit, the manual is virtually useless...

I hope that makes sense? It isn't just about buying the manual and completing knowledge reviews........

 

[Cave Bum]

...but I have another friend who just did PADI OW and I'd prefer to have my girlfriend borrow my other friend's crewpack...

I guess the question {is what} would prevent the use of the same manual twice...

Nothing that I can see...

...but the shop that let you share crew-packs is in violation of PADI standards, which require each student to have their own book.

Not exactly. This is directly from the PADI Members site:

"Required and Recommended Student Diver Materials
for PADI Courses

Effective 1 January, 2006

Minimum Required Materials: The PADI Dive Center, Resort, and/or Instructor conducting a course must ensure that student divers have, in their possession, a personal set of materials (as defined in the list of required materials for the course), for study and use during the course and for reference afterward; unless the materials are not available in a language understood by the student diver.

Student divers must have a current version of the required materials."

The standard says "... ensure...". If I ask my students "do you have a personal copy of {the required information}" and they answer "yes", I'm going to except that. It also says "have in their possession" not "to have and to hold from this day forward, until death do us part...".

Apparently instructors aren't supposed to allow #2, in a couple PADI courses I took in the past few months both instructors said PADI made them accept the originals.

I can't find that anywhere in the standards. Someone might make an argument that under copyright law it's illegal to copy any portion of a book, but there would be no restriction on a shop or instructor re-typing the knowledge review questions and handing that out to the students. Even handing out a sheet with numbered blanks and having the student fill in the answers would work. The reason for keeping copies of this is CYA in case you're sued later so you can prove that at the time of training the student did understand the material.

if it is a couple or family then there is no problem with them sharing the text. The idea of each person having their own text is for future reference use and to have them start a library that they can refer to at anytime.

Well again, we get back to that term 'personal copy'. I agree that an agument can be made that family ownership is the same as personal ownership.

What this comes down to is that PADI is a company that makes it's money by selling training materials. PADI DOES NOT TEACH SCUBA DIVING. Independant shops and independant instructors do that. PADI is just trying to ensure that if you certify through them that they've gotten their piece of the pie.