"Doing it Cheap" Why?

[freewillie]

The warranty lasts for what, 2 years? So one more service interval, then go to your 2 year interval if the warranty is that important to you.

Or buy an Atomic T3. Lifetime warranty and should last me forever. I bought it because I can, not because of a warranty.

Point is there is usually a bigger picture for overall use and what you pay or don't pay for gear. When certain analogies are made somebody usually tries to focus on a point that isn't part of big picture. Again, Peter's original post was along lines you pay for something expensive then nickel and dime the rest. The thread then deteriorates as you want to make a point that you can buy and dive good quality gear for cheap by finding it online like Craigslist. That was never really the point.

 

[scubastingray]

Or buy an Atomic T3. Lifetime warranty and should last me forever. I bought it because I can, not because of a warranty.

Point is there is usually a bigger picture for overall use and what you pay or don't pay for gear. When certain analogies are made somebody usually tries to focus on a point that isn't part of big picture. Again, Peter's original post was along lines you pay for something expensive then nickel and dime the rest. The thread then deteriorates as you want to make a point that you can buy and dive good quality gear for cheap by finding it online like Craigslist. That was never really the point.

I think the original point is still horribly elitist, and quite invalid.
Good gear can be found inexpensively while new, not just craigslist. Contrary to what some manufacturers and vendors would have you believe, just because it costs more doesn't mean it's better equipment.

If you want to pay an additional $1000 over the life of a regulator to keep a lifetime warranty be my guest, but I'd rather just take the risk of paying out of pocket for a material defect that would be covered, and not pay the extra service intervals.

 

[Diver0001]

Just because it is "cheap" doesn't mean it is a good value -- just like just because it is expensive doesn't mean it is great. But buying solely on price may just not be the best option.

It's really very simple, Peter.

The industry does a lot to promote the idea that standards mean that quality is uniform across the board. With that in mind, people treat buying training as if it were a commodity.

Why pay more if the result is going to be exactly the same?

And even savvy buyers who are aware at some level that quality can't be entirely uniform, the assumption is often made that what isn't learned in the course will be of minor consequence and can be picked up on the go afterwards. After all, standards mean that instructors can't certify someone who is a danger to themselves... right?

R..

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Rob is right. Even instructors will try to blow smoke and tell new divers that all basic training is the same. Now some who live in their little agency bubble actually believe this, but anyone that has been around a while knows it's complete crap. When it comes to gear in general no one is going to put out something dangerous. Shop owners run into similar issues though when they have a business model different than the so called norm. Is it being cheap when they try novel or different methods and arrangements to keep.overhead down? Or is it smart use of available resources in a still struggling economy? When it comes to training some is truly cut rate. But there is also damn good out there at nearly the same cost as an "average" course. Then you have premium that usually reflects the content and anyone smart enough to really compare can see it. And some instructors would really only deal with those smart enough to do that level of research.

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[halocline]

I believe that the biggest problem in the dive gear/training industry is the fact that training and gear sales are often provided by the same person or business. In fact, recreational dive training exists as it does, meaning hugely corporate, primarily to create a market for gear sales. Add to that the business model of the big agencies, well PADI anyhow, which is more-or-less a pyramid scheme with the primary intent of self-promulgation.

The gear sales side of this is rife with deceptive information, narcissism, and manipulative behavior on the part of the instructors. I realize that there are dedicated instructors on this forum for whom the quality of their training is paramount, but simply starting a thread imploring divers to 'avoid going cheap' is just another example of a dive educator engaging in sales. So why did you do it?

There is no substantial problem in recreational diving with people using inexpensive gear. The problem is that the whole industry is geared (no pun intended!) to acquiring new students, training them to the point where they will purchase equipment, and then repeating this process. When 90% or so of new divers do not continue, I'd say that's a pretty serious failure of education and training, unless of course the real goal of the industry is simply to sell new divers expensive gear. In that case, it's a rousing success.

I also realize that these few dedicated instructors who rightly feel that their skill is worth a premium price are likely getting squeezed financially by the glut of crappy teachers/salesmen that PADI keeps spitting out. This is worth complaining about, and if your thread was specifically about training costs, fine. But as soon as you start whining about the supposed 'problem' of divers using inexpensive or old gear, and THEN confuse the issue by tossing in some comment about service practices, you've lost credibility. It's a bit of a surprise considering your posting history.

 

[Dive-aholic]

Most of the stuff I sell on eBay is fully serviced but I have found that it actually best for me to not say it is because of unscrupulous dive shops pissed because of a lost sale.
If a buyer takes his eBay purchase to such a shop and are told that it has never been serviced and it is dangerous to dive it's me that has to deal with the consequences.
I now just service anyway and call it an "underhaul".
My buyers are generally quite happy.

That particular reg will have cost the buyer just under $70 with shipping, they got a full set with octo and gauges that was fully serviced and with Conshelfs being as reliable as they are can be abused for a good 3 years (probably much longer) and not need a thing done to it.

I've bought a few regs off ebay and I had every single one serviced once I received it. I wouldn't trust anyone's claim to it being serviced and advise others to do the same. Unless you know the seller and the reputation of the seller it's just not worth it.

 

[drbill]

I'm one of the cheapest of the cheap. My favorite on-line dive shop is E-Bay (since most of the gear I really like isn't made any more). However, when it comes to critical gear, I don't mind paying for proper servicing. If I were a beginning diver, I would want to ensure that the training I was receiving was very good. While some good dive ops do offer training at lower prices, I'd make sure I did the research on them before I signed up. After all, SCUBA may not be considered an "extreme sport" by today's youth, but it certainly isn't curling or tiddlywinks.

 

[DaleC]

...The industry does a lot to promote the idea that standards mean that quality is uniform across the board. With that in mind, people treat buying training as if it were a commodity.
Why pay more if the result is going to be exactly the same?

That's a pretty good point, especially when we have modular education, online learning and referral courses, where you do some work locally and the dives on vacation. Seems like the agencies perspective is that all training should be the same. My take, when I first started, was that I was being certified by an agency so their standard of education would be, at least, equal to the certification.

 

[dytis-sm]

Educate yourself with online pricing of what you want, then go to your local dive shop, discuss, and bargain. You will probably get the same prices (except for used stuff) and better service. I was surprised with the great deals I got offline. The best part, I can go back and ask questions, and get recommendations.

Now for the quality of comparing training, that is a different subject. What you will find online is complaints not good recommendations. And you will not know how good your trainer was until you are already trained and experienced. Some of the training depends on "chemistry" too, so how can one determine that in advance just because the price is right. This is where I think where online advertised costs set a baseline to know that you are not getting ripped off when shopping, but unless you talk to the training professional and have them explain to you why their course is more expensive, you cannot compare.

Bottom line, educate yourself online but then shop face to face...

 

[redacted]

I've bought a few regs off ebay and I had every single one serviced once I received it. I wouldn't trust anyone's claim to it being serviced and advise others to do the same. Unless you know the seller and the reputation of the seller it's just not worth it.

How do you get to your level of dive credentials without have learned to inspect your regulators so you know if they are in need of service or not?