How to pick a BP/W?

[halocline]

Richard, no offense, but your physical issues are not typical of most divers, and consequently your reasons for not preferring the one piece harness are not useful for most divers. Certainly they don't support your characterization of divers using the hog harness simply because the DIR set up requires it.

I also suspect that you would have no problems with a properly adjusted one piece harness, but to each his own.

 

[RAWalker]

For those divers who have genuine mobility problems, the single-piece harness can be easily modified with the inclusion of a metal weight-belt buckle on the left, lower, shoulder strap. Enabling a reliable quick release that is not prone to failure or breakage (as a plastic buckle would be).

Please show me the data regarding the failures of the plastic releases I've been looking all over for proof of that but the only info I have been able to find is anecdotel. Mostly the reports I've seen tend to state that no failure could be proved and attribute incidents to users not properly or completely clipping the releases together.
If you are just talking about weight belt type buckles I'll conceed that the plastic ones do fail at a much higher rate than metal. But the 2 part plastic releases used in mainstream BDC, Harnesses and Backpacking gear have a long track record of high reliability.

 

[rstofer]

Richard, no offense, but your physical issues are not typical of most divers, and consequently your reasons for not preferring the one piece harness are not useful for most divers. Certainly they don't support your characterization of divers using the hog harness simply because the DIR set up requires it.

I also suspect that you would have no problems with a properly adjusted one piece harness, but to each his own.

I didn't mean to characterize it that way. Actually, DIR has nothing to do with this except to say that all DIR divers will be using a one-piece harness.

I don't prefer the one piece harness but I have it on 3 BP/W's so I must be able to get by.

The only possible adjustment would be to loosen the shoulder straps. That would allow the plate to ride lower and is probably not the way to go. It's not like there are any real adjustments to make. Set the plate high enough to just barely be touched over the shoulder and the waist strap comes out where it does.

DIR-diver.com - Adjust the backplate

Richard

 

[Gombessa]

I don't prefer the one piece harness but I have it on 3 BP/W's so I must be able to get by.

Besides new divers and rental fleets, divers like you with certain physical constraints are probably the target audience for H's new Infinity harness. Single continuous webbing, adjustable shoulder straps for easier donning/doffing. There's not a lot of information out about it yet, though.

 

[OldNSalty]

Same goes for the padding you can get for a backplate. I used one originally, but don't anymore. But you can use it to stow something like an SMB.

This raises an interesting question (interesting to me anyway) I saw some of this padding adverticed and they showed it opend to expose storage for an SMB and lift bag

So, I have to take my equipment off underwater to use the storage? Yes, I know that this is a skill that everyone should have (and I do) but it just dosen't look like an idea solution-or did I read that wrong?

 

[cool_hardware52]

This raises an interesting question (interesting to me anyway) I saw some of this padding adverticed and they showed it opend to expose storage for an SMB and lift bag

So, I have to take my equipment off underwater to use the storage? Yes, I know that this is a skill that everyone should have (and I do) but it just dosen't look like an idea solution-or did I read that wrong?

To access inflatables stored in or behind a "plate Pad" or "storage pack" the diver reaches around to the bottom of the plate and pulls the item out the bottom.

An alternative to storage between the diver's back and plate is to use bungee loops across the bottom of the plate. A rolled up lift bag can be stowed in these loops and easily deployed.

Tobin

 

[OldNSalty]

I really need to call you.

Thanks

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Pretty much just like the BAUE site suggests to set it up: BAUE How To Size a Backplate

The thing is, I'm an old man and I just don't bend in the ways I used to. That 'chicken wing' thing ain't happening.

Nevertheless, I'm in.

One other factor: When I mount my double hose regulator, it has to clear the plate somehow. Yet it still wants to be centered between my shoulder blades. There also need to be some clearance for the wing. You would think this would make the shoulder straps even longer. Touching the top of the plate is out of the question.

The Freedom plate looks like it will be a step forward as it is curved to follow the upper spine. This gives clearance for the regulator housing while allowing the plate to be a little higher. I haven't had a chance to dive this rig yet.

Maybe over the next year or so I will re-rig the web harnesses with QR buckles. At the moment, I just bitch about it.

The DSS rigs will probably stay with the ProFit harness and the QR buckles. These are the two important setups (mine and my son-in-law's). The other rigs are just for use in the pool or use in the ocean with a double hose regulator.

Richard

Richard,
There is another way of getting out of a HOG harness istead of doing the arm back technique and trying to get the shoulder strap to slide off backwards like a coat. What I do, and I don't know why everyone else hasn't figured this out yet, is to
reach over to your left shoulder strap with your right hand and pull away the left strap with the right thumb, then while you have it pulled away run your left hand from the outside of the left strap underneath and out to the right and foreward. The strap will slide along your left forearm and once you get the strap past your elbow you just straighten your left arm a bit and your out. The rest is easy. With this technique if you have anything on your left fore arm like a compass or computer/BT you'll need to turn it in so it doesnt get caught on the strap as it's sliding along your forearm. I thought that's the way everybody got out of a HOG until I saw the other way. It takes a split second with my way and there's no painful contortions.

 

[DevonDiver]

Please show me the data regarding the failures of the plastic releases I've been looking all over for proof of that but the only info I have been able to find is anecdotel.

Do you seriously think that any agency or organization would collate and maintain statistical evidence of 'plastic quick-release failures'?!?!?

Anecotel? I've seen many divers miss dives because they broke quick releases. I've seen dozens of simular quick releases break on rucksacks and military gear also.

All it takes is a carelessly dropped weightbelt, tank or clumsy foot to crack those things.

Mostly the reports I've seen tend to state that no failure could be proved and attribute incidents to users not properly or completely clipping the releases together.

Can you provide a link to where you located those 'reports'.

If you are just talking about weight belt type buckles I'll conceed that the plastic ones do fail at a much higher rate than metal. But the 2 part plastic releases used in mainstream BDC, Harnesses and Backpacking gear have a long track record of high reliability.

Sure.....

 

[mikemill]

The single-piece harness is a core configuration concept for many (most?) technical divers. It is probably the most common configuration for Hogarthian divers and is the standard for GUE/UTD as part of the DIR philosophy.

If divers can learn to easily don and doff a unit, conduct rescues etc etc etc.... with single-piece harness, wearing doubles and multiple stages, along with canister lights etc etc.... then to do so with a single tank recreational set-up is considerably more easy.

I teach all my students in BP/W with single-piece harness, from DSDs to Open Water to tech courses. Regardless of shape, size or mobility, they all learn and become familiar with the rigs and are able to utilize them without a snag. This includes equipment remove and replace underwater and on the surface.

IMHO, where divers experience problems using a single-piece harness, it is invariably because they have sized the straps badly and just haven't practised enough. It is a lingering after-effect of being used to wearing jacket style BCDs.

Only a bad workman will blame his tools. If the single-piece configuration is the preference of the world's elite divers, then it is unlikely to have achieved this precedence if it is inherently difficult or dangerous. It's funny how the people who state having trouble with this rig are generally inexperienced divers.....

For those divers who have genuine mobility problems, the single-piece harness can be easily modified with the inclusion of a metal weight-belt buckle on the left, lower, shoulder strap. Enabling a reliable quick release that is not prone to failure or breakage (as a plastic buckle would be).

So, is it possible that a diver would just prefer a harness with adjustable straps and quick releases?