Jet Fins Vs Colt 1911

[Air On]

Good points SlowRain. I remember back in the early 90s helping train police for Glock's and double action shooting... That has to be one of the scariest experiences I've had in my life.

While I stilled lived in the Pacific Northwest in a town near the Canadian border.
Our Martial arts class was joined by local law enforcment for their shooting checkout tests and training! The martial arts class was only allowed 2 tries to pass the shootin test... The police were giving unlimited attempts. ALL the MA students passed by thier second try, most passed on their first... Over half of the Poilce took 4-5 times... one of the guys took over 11 tries and ended up having to mooch ammo off the MA students to complete his testing... I was not feeling so good about the idea the LE is supposed to protect the community at that point.

Take the time to train and KNOW your firearms and thier holisters! Most people can't even get their fire arms out to be used for self defence. Let alone the people that have to cock the weapon or forget about the safeties... I'll leave the finger in the trigger issues alone at this point.

Reguarding the legal issues also... What do you think happens if you do have to shoot someone... and you have a MODIFIED the weapon? Even adding safety features is MODIFIED from stock. Now all the sudden You have assasinated someone with as weapon you obviously have obsessive behavior with, having taken time end expence to modify and convert into a killing machine...

Think thats extream? Its not I've seen it happen a number of times over the years.

Ported barrels, custom colors, custom grips, custom triggers, even getting it etched with some custom image, like your grandfathers hunting rifle might have been engraved... All gets turned into a gun obsessive wack job looking to kill people.

Here is another thing that guns and scuba have in common... Think your insurance is going to cover you if you've done something custom to your dive equipment that changes its stock design?
Might want to look into that a little bit... Get killed playing with that homemade rebreather and your family most likely won't see a penny from your life insurance and be paying for your funeral out of pocket!

A shot gun IS the best weapon for home defence. Think its because of the fire power?, Think its the spead or the shot? NO... Its because your responsible for your bullets until they come to a full stop. That .45 or even a 9mm ball ammo will pass right through walls of your house AND the nieghbors. The soft lead shot won't hurt/kill the nieghbors as easily.

Take this actual senerio, the dad wakes up to a noise in the house... Grabs his 9mm from the night stand and creeps into the hallway. He sees a stranger in the hall and unloads the entire weapon at the intruder... missing him with ALL the shots. The intruder breaks for the back of the house and sliding door, he excapes... Now the dad hears his kids screaming. Rushing into his childrens room (across from the master bed room door) He discovers that ALL of the 9mm rounds have pretty much destroyed the kids room... Luckly the height the ideot was shooting was higher then the sleeping childrens beds... Not so lucky was the family vehicles in the front of the house... Or the neighbor across the street with front windows and door were broken or full of holes. Again...luckily no person was hit. Then I get hired by his ex-wife to investigate him and get her full custody...

So the moral is, if you don't use your head, don't get propertly trained and practice... But like to tinker with your equipment and customise it. Odds are your going to get yourself in trouble.

Keep it stock, keep it simple, keep it safe.

 

[james croft]

Or you can helicopter kick the intruder to bits with you 1970 jet fins with aftermarket trijicon spring straps and teach him a lesson he will never forget.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Well without getting into the dynamicis of stress and it's effects on the body, Removing a safety is a fine motor skill, which diminishes with stress. As does manual dexterity. In a time of stress say when one would jump out of a car for some unknown reason on a traffic stop at 0 dark 30. One may react by unholstering your sidearm. Should the idiot escalate by moving his hand toward his back, waist ,or inside a jacket, This is where the issue takes place. Said idiot goes for weapon, did I unholster and remove the safety 3000 times or more prior to this, What is generally accepted as the number of repetitions required to make a motor skill automatic, so that I can fire. Or I place may finger on trigger, but numb nuts pulls a wallet. 4 pounds of pressure is real easy when one am ramped up. Then did you remember to re-engage the safety before holstering. That AD has happened, on tape with the suspect on the ground being hand cuffed, and no it was not me. So that in a nut shell is my concern. Hope that helps. You

Ok...as you said before - a training issue.

With proper training and currency, I'd argue holstering and reholstering a 1911 is no less safe. Frankly as long as your finger is not inside the guard it will not go off even if the safety is not engaged, and once your hand begins to lift off the grip safety it adds another level of safety.

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I agree that both 9mm and .45 caliber bullets will penetrate a lot more walls than you'd like in a home defense situation - and that includes hollow points as when it impacts a wall the point will plug with sheet rock and it effectively becomes a flat point. That said a 9mm will probably penetrate more than a .45.

In a confined space a .45 also has an edge in terms of muzzle blast as it is generally less sharp than a 9mm and the projectile is also subsonic. Muzzle flash is also usually a lot less with a .45 which can be a factor at night.

A shot gun is a great indoor choice and if properly designed for home defense it will be short and fast handling - most people can get lead on target quicker at short range with a shotgun than a pistol. And in addition to being able to be loaded with smaller shot that will not overpenetrate, the muzzle blast is again fairly low frequency and not as deafening.

One other home defense option is a 5.56mm AR-15. With a lightly constructed bullet, it will penetrate one wall fairly cleanly but destabilizes and/or fragments with little pentration beyond that compared to a 9mm. Not as nice as a shotgun, but still better than the average 9mm. The downside is that a 16" or 20" barrelled AR fired in a cofined space is LOUD and will leave you yelling "what?" for a while if hearing protection is not used.

Jet fins on the other hand are not all that great for home defense, but they are very quiet and routinely pentrate thousands of feet in caves while both the 9mm and .45 would only penetrate a few feet.

 

[Papa Steve]

Just a little FYI for those of you with a little "excess bravado". Be very careful what you post/email/express in regards to your viewpoints on the use of firearms in defense situations. God forbid you ever are put into the situation where you actually are involved in a shooting of any kind, especially a fatal one. You will go through a legal proceeding to determine if the homicide you committed is justifiable or not...and those things can be brought in as evidence going to state of mind, and if you should be placed on trial, again they will be brought to light. You REALLY don't want to have to deal with that sort of ammunition in the hands of a skilled attorney. Having unfortunately been through it, it is not a pleasant affair for police officers, let alone civilians. And trust me, even if you get through the criminal portion of the affair, you will without fail, be sued in civil court...and those kinds of statements (and they WILL subpeona ALL email, text messages, etc.) will be your undoing. Its one thing to be an active duty police officer where at least you have some protection regarding civil liability by the organization you work for...it is an entirely different matter when you are simply a citizen and have to foot the bill yourself.

This is an excellent point. I can't imagine the nightmare this would be. Fortunately, Texas has followed Florida in passing what has become known as the Castle Law. It states that if you are not found criminally liable in a shooting you can't be sued in civil court.
God Bless Texas!

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It has happened where an intruder gets shot by the home owner and then sues the homeowner because he or she shot the criminal during the home invasion crime. makes zero sense but it happens.

 

[SlowRain]

This is an excellent point. I can't imagine the nightmare this would be. Fortunately, Texas has followed Florida in passing what has become known as the Castle Law. It states that if you are not found criminally liable in a shooting you can't be sued in civil court.
God Bless Texas!

I know that Wyoming has the same bill ready for signature by the Gov. Would be interesting to find out while you could not be sued in state court, if you could still be sued in Federal Court under that legal catch-all called violation of civil rights. (Probably so).

As for the customization of firearms....that might be an issue, but I have found most people that are having that sort of work done usually are involved in IPSC or 3-gun shooting competitions...and if that is the case, then gun customization really isn't a leg anyone could depend on using against you.

I agree with the stupidity of the idea of someone who has broken into your home, (and remember before you shoot, that person must be demonstrating the intent to do you/yours bodily harm) and you have shot can sue you...but they often do. Sure, maybe they don't win, but you will pay a small fortune in attorney's fees to ensure they don't. Wait a minute...this has gotten way off track!

Okay...Jet Fins would never sue you whether you shot them or not.

 

[bfw]

I'm not a fan of the 9mm either for that reason. .40 cal is a great cross between velocity and weight.... That's why most LE agencies issue them now... Thanks for replies so far.

The .40 cal round was developed because female FBI agents couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm round.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Giffman, you don't much about Glocks do ya? It actually has three mechanisms to prevent unintentional dis-charge. If you pull the trigger, It goes bang. If you dont, it won't. ...snip...Handguns are some of the finest machines made today. 99 percent of the safties work. 98.9 percent of the time you pull the trigger it goes bang. The ones that don't are usually shooter or ammo related, so if it goes bang when you don't want it too, it means you ^&&*up. Training issue. Back to Scuba

After extensive research I have discovered you are in fact correct. Glock's are so easy to shoot a Chimp can do it.

Chimp's on the other hand cannot shoot 1911's or use Jet Fins.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

The .40 cal round was developed because female FBI agents couldn't handle the recoil of the 10mm round.

To be fair, a lot of male FBI agents could not shoot it well either. The 10mm has the quicker recoil impulse of comparatively high velocity 9mm with the heavier recoil of a .45. When that is combined with the added slide velocity compared to either a 9mm or .45 ACP in any given pistol, the result is a lot nastier to shoot than a 9mm, a .40 S&W or a .45 ACP.

I shoot a lot and I don't like the 10mm all that much, and I still own a .400 corbon barrel that will probably never get used again as that round is even sharper in recoil and is a real slide beater. In addition, the really high velocity 10mm's tend to overpentrate and much of the extra energy they have is wasted. For an LEO who is not a shooter and qualifies only 2-4 times per year and shoots maybe 500 rounds per year rather than 500 rounds per month or even weekend, the .40 Short and Whimpy is a far better choice in .40 caliber.

On the other hand, , if you ignore the incredibily useless FBI windshield penetration requirement, the .45 ACP does everything else better than the .40 S&W and is manageable by nearly everyone who can shoot a 9mm or 10mm without significantly more training. And if you put the .45 ACP in a glock, a chimp could probably shoot it.

Both male and female FBI agents can also shoot 1911's and use Jetfins. Navy Seals however can use both at the same time.

 

[Papa Steve]

Both male and female FBI agents can also shoot 1911's and use Jetfins. Navy Seals however can use both at the same time.

And remember, though Chuck Norris uses Jetfins, he does not shoot a 1911. He doesn't need it . . .he kills with a stare.