Minimum training standard to start with a rebreather

[danvolker]

Take a Vintage style reg like this one, add a fine sponge to the rear mounted exhaust, and you have open circuit essentially as quiet/silent as a CCR, and all the bottom time any recreational diver will ever need--for a tiny fraction of the cost of any rebreather, and with a tiny fraction of the malfunction danger.

 

[kwinter]

I will take CCR training this winter.

WTF? I've been away from this forum too long. Someone has stolen Frank's login ID. Or his mind.

 

[KeithG]

rebreather? isn't that just a funny tank? kind of like those funny dry suits those canadians like to wear? why can't you use it to get your OW? lots o canucks do that in those complex dry suit thingys!

as a photographer i have thought (a very small bit) about rebreathers. not for me at this time.

but, like those advanced drysuits, why can't rebreathers be considered "starter equipment" for those (few) persons that can demonstrate sufficient knowledge and skills? why does anyone think we need a "minimum dive #" barrier ?

maybe we need to establish a minimm dive # for use of a compass?

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 12:37 AM ----------

WTF? I've been away from this forum too long. Someone has stolen Frank's login ID. Or his mind.

it was that sidemount thing. he's totally freestyling now...

 

[Dr. Lecter]

rebreather? isn't that just a funny tank? kind of like those funny dry suits those canadians like to wear? why can't you use it to get your OW? lots o canucks do that in those complex dry suit thingys!

as a photographer i have thought (a very small bit) about rebreathers. not for me at this time.

but, like those advanced drysuits, why can't rebreathers be considered "starter equipment" for those (few) persons that can demonstrate sufficient knowledge and skills? why does anyone think we need a "minimum dive #" barrier ?

Rebreathers aren't that complex, they're just much more complex than OC, and the consequences for mishandling the greater complexity are both worse and harder to detect. I don't doubt there could be an OWRBD course, where people who have never dove before learn to dive on a CCR from day one. It would be like fundies on steroids crossed with a particularly weird equipment tech class (​ok, so here's the heart of your instrumentation system...it's not designed for this use and it really sucks at it. do the best you can with 'em), and probably five times the cost and length of any current OW class. Various forms of silent death would be the focus, with pretty fish mentioned essentially never.

I imagine some science diver types would probably take it, and that's about it

 

[ajduplessis]

I do not agree with you on that point. You should be fairly experienced in Open circuit before going down the CCR road. Maybe not to the level of OC trimix ('cause mix is too expensive in OC), but at least advanced nitrox/deco procedure and the reason is very simple:

When the sh*t hit the fan, you'll revert to OC. So your OC skillz must be fine tuned to avoid panic and other bad thing happening to you.


In my case, I started CCR last winter after 3 years of technical OC diving and some dabbeling with trimix. The thought of knowing that my OC skills are there to back me up in case of bailing out of CCR in a dive, is a stress relief.

Then you can be a weak OC diver with a rebreather! Capital!

Enlightenment does not find all ........

 

[pensacolaracer]

I won't comment on how many dives or what type of cert you need prior to RB training.

But I think it's a Terrible idea to start either OW or Tech training on one.

There is just way too much stuff happening on a rebreather for something as simple as ascending or descending that needs you attention.

You have to be completely comfortable in the water at depth so you can focus your attention where it belongs on the unit... Not fiddling with buoyancy or other OC skills you should have dialed in perfectly.

I recently witnessed a guy training on a rebreather who was in my book, not solid at all. I'm not sure I would even dove shallow open circuit with him.

The dive I witnessed went about as expected... A real **** show.


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[victor]

Maybe I should have understood the differing drivers behind the switch to rebreathers.
1. Deep divers, requiring trimix, extended deco, etc

2. Shallow cave divers, long duration dives with a varied profile

3. Shallow open water divers, e.g. photographers looking to extend bottom time, avoid scaring the locals, reduce or eliminate deco obligation

4. Tech diving aficionado's. e.g. the groups of divers who want to understand and dive this technology because it exists not because they any specific requirement.

And I am sure there are others.

Each group may have differing requirements from the equipment.
With OC they have adapted their diving styles to compensate for the limitations of the equipment available.

I would fall into 3 however I still believe the technology is too imature to allow me to concentrate on photograpy and essentially ignoring the rebreather for minutes at a time but I could be wrong.

---------- Post added October 2nd, 2014 at 10:11 AM ----------

I think this will be the option with a bailout bottle that I will be looking at in the short term. Back to the gear that I trained on originally. However the techy in me still hankers after a rebreather.

View attachment 194246Take a Vintage style reg like this one, add a fine sponge to the rear mounted exhaust, and you have open circuit essentially as quiet/silent as a CCR, and all the bottom time any recreational diver will ever need--for a tiny fraction of the cost of any rebreather, and with a tiny fraction of the malfunction danger.

 

[pensacolaracer]

3. Shallow open water divers, e.g. photographers looking to extend bottom time, avoid scaring the locals, reduce or eliminate deco obligation



I would fall into 3 however I still believe the technology is too imature to allow me to concentrate on photograpy and essentially ignoring the rebreather for minutes at a time but I could be wrong..

I would say that nobody should ignore the unit for minutes at a time. However, besides work of breathing... Which kind of comes natural to monitor, you are only monitoring your ppo2 on your displays.

The technology has took a huge leap with the introduction of the NERD which puts all controller information right into your field of view... Making monitoring the unit nothing more than shifting the focus of one eye a few degrees

As far as maximizing bottom time, if you are planning a square profile and have the correct gas, there is essentially no difference in NDL between rebreather and open circuit.... Provided you follow the square profile.


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[kelemvor]

Take a Vintage style reg like this one, add a fine sponge to the rear mounted exhaust, and you have open circuit essentially as quiet/silent as a CCR, and all the bottom time any recreational diver will ever need--for a tiny fraction of the cost of any rebreather, and with a tiny fraction of the malfunction danger.

I think there is an "argonaut kraken" being manufactured that is a modernized double hose reg. I remember seeing posts about it this year. I believe it exhausts in the rear so you could probably do the same thing with a sponge. I'd be curious to see/hear how well that idea works. I wasn't really interested in the kraken until just now

 

[Akimbo]

I have found that critters react to double hose regulators about the same as single hoses. Bubbles still make noise that they can hear and feel no matter how you try to disburse the gas. Double hose regulators are nice for photographers since bubbles don’t get in the way unless you are on your back. It is hard to beat a totally closed circuit rebreather for animal interaction.