New diver having trouble with the back plate wing BCD my instructor sold me.

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Posts like this prove my point from other threads. Simpler is better for beginner divers and BP/W is not for everyone.
Contrary to most SB opinions on the subject.

How is a BP&W not simpler? It does everything a jacket has to with non of the gimmicky crap. I do not believe the OP would not have the same problems with a jacket, and that her difficulties are purely due to inexperience, which she will overcome as she dives more, hopefully with more open minded divers.

I really cannot see what is difficult about them. To rig a one piece harness, all you need to do is read the instructions, look at somebody else's, or watch a video on youtube. Adjust the shoulder straps so you can reach behind and touch the centre of the plate on the top edge and adjust the waist strap. Then chuck the wing onto the back and bolt your single tank adapter on. Once that is done, you should barely need to adjust it again.

Getting into it couldn't be easier. One arm through one strap, one through the other, thread the crotch strop through the waistband and fasten the buckle. There is no faffing about with adjusting pinch clip sliders, or not being able to get the strap over your shoulder because some crappy bit of plastic is snagging, or getting your kit half on and realising you haven't extended the strap and refitted the pinch-clip after taking it off. Once you are in it, there is less clutter, so you feel less restrained and it is much easier to maintain good trim.

Technical diving is much more complicated than simple recreational stuff. Whoever developed the BP&W system did not look at the jacket BCD and say, "How can we make this more complicated, so we can frighten off recreational divers?"; they looked at equipment and thought about how to simplify and streamline the kit so it is not adding to the challenges they already have. I rarely dive with twins these days as anything that justifies that sort of setup is ideal for the rebreather, but my backplate and wing is now my tool of choice for shallow, single tank diving as it is just so much simpler than a jacket.

Your premise is incorrect. Give a new diver a jacket (which come assembled and sized) or a BP/W that needs to be assembled, configured, sized, resized. They may even mount the bladder upside down?

There is a reason why compaines make you tube video's on assembing BP/W. Because it's not common knowledge for new divers.

When I started diving, I bought a jacket BCD. That was because all the instructors and DMs wore them and I had never seen a BP&W. When I started diving with the club members, I saw they were almost all on BP&Ws, but most had 'comfort' harnesses with all the sliders and plastic crap on them, and the bungeed wing o' death. I had read more about them on the internet, and looked at a few set-ups in the shop and decided to go for the simple doughnut wing and one piece harness.

Despite having never set one up, I still managed to get enough info from the instructions to assemble it. If you can build a flat-pack wardrobe, you can assemble a BP&W. I have no idea why a diver would mount the bladder upside down; anybody who has done an OW course will know the LPI hose comes over your left shoulder.

Any difficulty setting up the kit is not a fault of the equipment. The problem is closed minded instructors who keep promoting the attitude that the BP&W is the purely the tool of the techie. There are several reasons why they are better for all divers, but until all instructors start to move with the times, we'll always have this problem.
 
In a bp/w? Why would you need to be vertical? Is the only way to vent a wing though the inflator?

Not sure you're asking me because I never said anyone needed to be vertical. But I definitely think telling someone who is newly certified and on vacation and having buoyancy problems that they shouldn't go vertical to vent is really really bad advice, for a multitude of reasons. Just putting the thought into their head at this point is ridiculous.
 
Not sure you're asking me because I never said anyone needed to be vertical. But I definitely think telling someone who is newly certified and on vacation and having buoyancy problems that they shouldn't go vertical to vent is really really bad advice, for a multitude of reasons. Just putting the thought into their head at this point is ridiculous.

quite the opposite... i could state multiple reasons why you should not go vertical to vent and worse during an uncontrolled ascent:

1. Going vertical makes it worse because now your fins are below you and since finning will not be perfect at this stage you are likely going to be finning yourself up

2. Staying horizontal or slightly head down while finning back down arrests your uncontrolled ascent (and to me that's just common sense, i wasn't thought that). While in this position it's very easy to pull the rear dump valve to release excess air.

3. Uncontrolled ascents cause people to panic, it is very easy to add more air into your bc rather than purge when using the hose to vent

as a matter of fact i think teaching people to go vertical and vent air can be a dangerous practice especially for reasons listed above... every-time I've seen an uncontrolled ascent it got worse when the person went vertical...
 
quite the opposite... i could state multiple reasons why you should not go vertical to vent and worse during an uncontrolled ascent:

1. Going vertical makes it worse because now your fins are below you and being finning will not be perfect at this stage you are likely going to be finning yourself up

2. Staying horizontal or slightly head down while finning back down arrests your uncontrolled ascent (and to me that's just common sense, i wasn't thought that). While in this position it's very easy to pull the rear dump valve to release excess air.

3. Uncontrolled ascents cause people to panic, it is very easy to add more air into your bc rather than purge when using the hose to vent

as a matter of fact i think teaching people to go vertical and vent air can be a dangerous practice especially for reasons listed above... every-time I've seen an uncontrolled ascent it got worse when the person went vertical...

OK so now we're telling newly certified divers to not go vertical to vent. Yeah this should go well...
 
OK so now we're telling newly certified divers to not go vertical to vent. Yeah this should go well...

But I definitely think telling someone who is newly certified and on vacation and having buoyancy problems that they shouldn't go vertical to vent is really really bad advice, for a multitude of reasons. Just putting the thought into their head at this point is ridiculous.

i'm waiting...

there are so many reasons why a diver should not be vertical, period (i just made a post stating 3 simple reasons)... but i await your multitude of reasons for why it's dangerous not to be vertical...
 
Your premise is incorrect. Give a new diver a jacket (which come assembled and sized) or a BP/W that needs to be assembled, configured, sized, resized. They may even mount the bladder upside down?

There is a reason why compaines make you tube video's on assembing BP/W. Because it's not common knowledge for new divers.

First, BP/W systems are not the only ones that can be "disassembled" after their initial assembly. So I think your issue is with any BC system that can be disassembled.

Second, whether or not BP/W are suitable for newer divers is a topic for an entirely different thread. The original poster already has one. Your pooing over the poster's choice of gear adds absolutely nothing in terms of helping the poster with their issues.
 
A number of years ago, we did a trip to the Red Sea with a couple of friends, who were experienced divers and photographers, but dove a standard BC. While they were on the boat, we talked the lady into trying a backplate and wing. She disliked it intensely, and said it was quite difficult to vent (it was a Frog wing). Later in the trip, we put her in my rig, and she liked it fine. It turned out the bladder in the Frog wing was twisted and didn't fit properly in the outer casing, which DID make it difficult to vent. So, sometimes there is something wrong that influences how well the gear works.

It would help a great deal if we could see a photograph of your rig, or even better, a picture of you in the water using it. If the wing is very large, or biased to be very wide at the base, it may be trapping air a long way from the inflator hose. There is also the question of whether the gear is correctly assembled.

I do agree with the folks who are saying that it should not be necessary to become head up and vertical in order to vent, even from the inflator hose, so if that is what you find yourself having to do, something is definitely wrong.
 
First, BP/W systems are not the only ones that can be "disassembled" after their initial assembly. So I think your issue is with any BC system that can be disassembled.

Second, whether or not BP/W are suitable for newer divers is a topic for an entirely different thread. The original poster already has one. Your pooing over the poster's choice of gear adds absolutely nothing in terms of helping the poster with their issues.

Oh no. I've been pulled over by the self appointed SB police [sirens]. I assure you there was plenty of pooing on this thread before I showed up.
However, I actually have a different view on your second point. I think my opinion (correct or incorrect) may have done a great job to explain the perceived benefits of a BP/W system through experienced divers posting to defend it? It's not often that threads stay on topic....
Maybe I'm wrong; Maybe I'm right. Either way, there is a lot of useful information on this thread.
 
MrsP - Hopefully you have been able to work out the issues with your wing. If not you might want to see if the dive shop you are diving with can check out the inflator valve to make sure it is opening properly. You should be able to dump air when you are in a heads up position using your inflator valve (button on the end of the inflator). To check this on land, you can manually inflate the wing and then very gently squeeze the wing to simulate the water pressure and while pressing the inflator dump valve. If this does not work then I would have the dive shop look at the inflator / dump valve to make sure there is no blockage and that it is functioning properly.

Are you able to dump air at the surface during your descent without issue? When trying to deflate while at depth are your able to dump air in a vertical position without issue? Make sure you raise the inflator over your head so that the air can easily escape. Is your son's wing operating correctly?

To TSMs point, you may wan tot inflate the wing as much as possible to rule out a twisted bladder. It should inflate very evenly.

BPWs are really no different than a jacket BCD from an inflate/deflate perspective.

Good luck and enjoy your diving!
 




OK so now we're telling newly certified divers to not go vertical to vent. Yeah this should go well...

They should not have been taught to go vertical to begin with as it is poor technique at best. You like to misquote people for effect or argument?

N
 
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