PADI Master Diver Rating

[TheScubaBOB]

I'm also on the road to MSD and will continue to DM (and maybe beyond)....

I'm at 19 dives, AOW & 2 specialties (Nitrox & Equipment). I picked my 3 other specialties to fit my interests.

PPB to help me be a better diver.

Deep to help me be a more confident diver at depths around 100 ft (not for the 103 ft rating)

Wreck to help me be a better Wreck Diver.

Of course when I get to Rescue it will be a boost in my confidence and awareness, I'm only waiting on that course so I can do it with my Wife in the Philippines next year.

For anyone to look down on me simply because I choose to stake claim to MSD Rating makes as much sense as me automatically assuming that any DM on a dive will ensure that I'm completely safe underwater so I can drop my guard & awareness.

I would like to know what would have to be done to get the NAUI Master Scuba Diver program coming with only PADI Certs.

 

[Zieg]

Sounds like some (or maybe just one) of the posters here are not impressed with the PADI system, unfortunate to see such a close-minded approach, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Actually there are quite a few here that are not impressed with the PADI system. But then again, there is just nothing there to be impressed about.

 

[Thalassamania]

Sounds like some (or maybe just one) of the posters here are not impressed with the PADI system, unfortunate to see such a close-minded approach, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I'm not very impressed with the PADI system. I've watched it since it's very beginnings, I've know most of its leaders on a first name basis, I've watched it do great harm to a reasonably effective 40 hour sports diving training scheme and substitute in it's place a program of half that duration while pushing critical skills like buoyancy control and basic rescue out into separately priced products. Additionally I have watched while PADI has, at the same time, twisted the English language into an unrecognizable shape with their redefinition of terms like "mastery" and has consistently taken course titles that were widely accepted throughout the industry and applied them to programs that were one level down, thus making rather meaningless course titles like "Advanced Diver" that used to demand some respect but that now are really just remediation for open water divers that are inaquately trained. But I could go on and on, anyway ... I'm not impressed with the PADI system, if you are, might I suggest that you take a careful look at the historical alternatives before you style those of us who are intimately familiar with those alternatives as "closed-minded."

Here are the performance definitions that I use: link. Let me know how you think the average PADI (or for that matter most all of the agencies these days) diver stacks up.

I would like to know what would have to be done to get the NAUI Master Scuba Diver program coming with only PADI Certs.

The certs that you have coming in do not matter, as long as the instructor feels that your past training and experience has provided you with a background equivalent to a NAUI advanced certification.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

Thanks for your feedback, appreciate all the banter on this thread.

 

[Slonda828]

(I am not pro-PADI or NAUI, I'm just a diver. I've taken PADI OW, AOW, rescue, and am currently in DM as we speak. I took NAUI nitrox, advanced rescue, and master diver. I am telling you this to frame what I am about to say. The following is my opinion only.)

If you are looking for the best education, ceteris paribus, why wouldn't you take the NAUI master diver course? The academics are the entire instructor's course minus the demonstration quality skills, you do real world missions (with indirect supervision and evaluation), and you have to be a decent swimmer and have decent skills. I have seen people actually not be good enough for this course, which means it has standards. It is a real challenge. Why would you mail in some money for a C-card that is the equivalent of a vanity license plate when you could have a NAUI master diver card? There is no other equivalent class, so why not go for something that doesn't require you to defend it when you are done?

"well, I know people say that this card doesn't mean I've mastered anything, but I did 5 specialties already, so I paid some money and got this neat card with a picture of a dolphin on it. Oh yeah, and they mailed me a wall certificate and a gym bag too."

or

"I had to swim 400 yards in a decent time, demonstrate good watermanship skills, swim 25 meters underwater on a single breath, ditch and don my gear, and plan, prepare, and execute my own dives with a real gas plan in deco, night, navigation, and salvage environments. My instructor also tailor made some electives for me to pursue so I could expand my knowledge of areas that were important to me. I also got to do 8 more dives."

Honestly, read those two (opinionated) descriptions out loud. Do you wonder why the PADI MSD course has no clout? Oh...wait...it isn't even a course.

 

[jjhill]

I'm in the middle of the Naui Master Diver course right now and I can honestly say this one is a bit of a challenge. All the other scuba courses I have taken so far (ow, aow, rescue, nitrox all Naui) have been extremely easy for me as I have always been a natural and comfortable in the water. The big difference for me is the knowledge aspect where math, formulas and diving physics is learned so you understand not only how to dive but why you have to dive that way which is important if you truly want "mastery" over a subject.

 

[Bobby Demosthenis]

I'm also on the road to MSD and will continue to DM (and maybe beyond)....

I'm at 19 dives, AOW & 2 specialties (Nitrox & Equipment). I picked my 3 other specialties to fit my interests.

PPB to help me be a better diver.

Deep to help me be a more confident diver at depths around 100 ft (not for the 103 ft rating)

Wreck to help me be a better Wreck Diver.

Of course when I get to Rescue it will be a boost in my confidence and awareness, I'm only waiting on that course so I can do it with my Wife in the Philippines next year.

For anyone to look down on me simply because I choose to stake claim to MSD Rating makes as much sense as me automatically assuming that any DM on a dive will ensure that I'm completely safe underwater so I can drop my guard & awareness.

I would like to know what would have to be done to get the NAUI Master Scuba Diver program coming with only PADI Certs.

The PADI Rescue Diver Course was the best course I have taken (well the DM is in a class of its on, I am spending 9 weeks solely doing the DM and thankfully I am taking a few divers with me doing OW, AOW and Rescue so I am getting a sound education and due to a first class instructor) but the Rescue as you say, it will will increase your confidence and awareness. It certinely did for me.

Bobby

 

[jviehe]

Im pretty sure this has been covered many times on this board. My personal opinion about MSD, as a PADI Instructor, is that you get out of it what you put into it. The MSD Card itself is no more than a recognition that you have completed more dives and training than most other divers. All of PADIs recreational courses are not aimed at the lifelong thousand dive technical divers. They are aimed at the majority of divers, which have make a few hundred dives, dive for fun, casually, primarily newer divers.

Now, there is no MSD course per se. That is the discretion of the dive center/instructor. You could pursue your own path then get the card, or you could sign up for a dive shops MSD course and go from 0 to hero over whatever time frame that is. You could be OW and then sign up for MSD and complete all the rest of the dives and specialities. You could already meet all the requirements and then just get the recognition. As I said at first, you get out of it what you put into it. Keep in mind recreational diving is about fun, not about work.

 

[Walter]

I'm sorry dude..but that made absolutely ZERO sense.

What part didn't you understand? I'll try to explain more clearly.

Why would i carry the ice diver in say...Bonaire?

I wouldn't expect you to do so. I would expect you to carry your ice card if you were making an ice dive with folks who weren't aware you were qualified to make ice dives. Perhaps you missed the part where I said, "likely you don't really need to carry the Ice Diver Card."

And again, since i don't carry the logbook when, for instance, buying new gear, how are they gonna even know (or care) what certs/cards i possess.

What does buying gear have to do with certification. You can buy gear without being certified.

MSD/DM are the highest certs i possess. So if gonna be buying gear, one or the other would be the only card i need to carry right?? Now, if i'm gonna do a night dive, or deep, or w/e, then i'd bring one of those.

I don't know why you're talking about buying gear, but as for the dives, how does that differ from your AOW card? You can still dive at night, you can still dive deep. I have no idea what you mean by a w/e dive, perhaps you'll define your term. Of course, if you're working, you'll need the DM card as both the AOW and the master diver would be worthless, but then we weren't discussing anything to do with the DM certification.

Sounds like some (or maybe just one) of the posters here are not impressed with the PADI system, unfortunate to see such a close-minded approach

What makes you believe it is a closed-minded approach? I've looked at the PADI system with an open mind. I've looked at other programs with an open mind. I've evaluated them all and drawn conclusions based on the results I've seen. Besides, while I do have an opinion about the PADI system, I do not believe I've expressed it in this thread. This thread (and especially my posts) have been about one particular certification, the PADI Master Diver and it's value of lack of value. Trying to keep an open mind, I've specifically asked for folks to explain any value (other than vanity) the master diver card has that is not contained in the specialties and log. So far, no one has had an answer. You wanna give it a shot?

 

[jjhill]

What part didn't you understand? I'll try to explain more clearly.



I wouldn't expect you to do so. I would expect you to carry your ice card if you were making an ice dive with folks who weren't aware you were qualified to make ice dives. Perhaps you missed the part where I said, "likely you don't really need to carry the Ice Diver Card."



What does buying gear have to do with certification. You can buy gear without being certified.



I don't know why you're talking about buying gear, but as for the dives, how does that differ from your AOW card? You can still dive at night, you can still dive deep. I have no idea what you mean by a w/e dive, perhaps you'll define your term. Of course, if you're working, you'll need the DM card as both the AOW and the master diver would be worthless, but then we weren't discussing anything to do with the DM certification.



What makes you believe it is a closed-minded approach? I've looked at the PADI system with an open mind. I've looked at other programs with an open mind. I've evaluated them all and drawn conclusions based on the results I've seen. Besides, while I do have an opinion about the PADI system, I do not believe I've expressed it in this thread. This thread (and especially my posts) have been about one particular certification, the PADI Master Diver and it's value of lack of value. Trying to keep an open mind, I've specifically asked for folks to explain any value (other than vanity) the master diver card has that is not contained in the specialties and log. So far, no one has had an answer. You wanna give it a shot?

In my opinion the Naui Master diver course is more closely related to the PADI DM course. As has been said the PADI Master Diver course is for all intents and purposes a gimmie. The Naui Master Diver involves alot of theory and physics more likey to be equivelent to the PADI DM course except with out the leadership stuff.

In NAUI the Master Diver card is a pre-req to the leadership levels of DM, AI, Instructor ect. That is the reason why I am doing the Naui Master Diver course. For its increased knowledge and as a step moving toward becoming an AI.

I do agree however, that for an individual with no desire to progress into leadership levels of the Naui AI, Instructor levels ect or the PADI DM, Instructor levels there really is no added benefit to haveing a master diver card. As Walter pointed out the card does not give you any other ability in your diving eg diving deeper ect.

At the end of the day if a diver is not looking to go into leadership levels then a Master Diver card of either agency is a moot point.