Question about air2's

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Why do you think it would work any differently? So DumpsterDiver is diving with a new or not his usual buddy. That buddy signals OOA. You give him/her your primary and start breathing off your AIR II and up you go. Now let's say DumpsterDiver has an octo instead and it's bungeed around his neck. Same buddy signals OOA. He donates his primary and starts breathing off his octo. Up you go.

How does the fact that his inflator having a mouthpiece on it just screw it all up and confuse the OOA diver? If the OOA diver has never dove with someone who has an octo around his neck, will he go nuts and get confused? Will it cause even more panic because he has never seen this set-up?

The point is that posting a video of someone calmly doing a skill for a camera on an ascent line doesn't prove much about the gear or technique, that was my point. Maybe DumpsterDiver wouldn't have a problem in a real emergency - he has a ton of dives. But maybe someone else using the Air2 with only 20 dives might, especially when the emergency is unanticipated and real. That's what this discussion is about, that's all. If you really think that there is no difference between the execution of procedures in a drill and in an actual emergency, then I would have to disagree with you, and leave it at that.

Look, gear optimization is always about tinkering around the edges of design, trying to look for minor modes of failure, etc.. It is almost NEVER about having an accident analysis report that shows how this or that device killed someone. With rare exceptions, we don't usually find out what happened in a fatality or serious DCS incident. But that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile to discuss things here.

None of us has enough experience to actually do a real scientific analysis out of our own log books, so it's always going to be conjecture. And conjecture isn't a bad thing. Hey, we're not diving today anyway, might as well talk about it!
 
Hey, we're not diving today anyway,

And that is sad my friend. Very sad.

However, if any of you are going to be in the Raleigh, NC area this Saturday, we are having a pig pickin at my house at 4:00. Menu is:

Whole hog on the grill
Chickens on the grill
Rosemary Roasted Potatoes
Baked Beans
Pasta Salad
Slaw
Cool Whip Salad
Hush Puppies
All kinds of drinks

Come on!
 
shame.... I'm supposed to splash at 19:00, and again at 21:00 to test some lights....
 
And that is sad my friend. Very sad.

However, if any of you are going to be in the Raleigh, NC area this Saturday, we are having a pig pickin at my house at 4:00. Menu is:

Whole hog on the grill
Chickens on the grill
Rosemary Roasted Potatoes
Baked Beans
Pasta Salad
Slaw
Cool Whip Salad
Hush Puppies
All kinds of drinks

Come on!

Now THAT is something that I can unconditionally support. Would love to join if I wasn't stuck here digging out earwax. :)

We had pulled pork from Costco for dinner last night. NOT the real deal. Disappointing. Gotta get back to Olympus dive center in Morehead city for sand tigers and barbecue...
 
Let me get this straight...
Imagine the noobe confusion of trying to breath off a reg that is still clipped to a BCD.

What? It's not zip tied to me, it's on a mouthpiece keeper that prevents free flows and releases with a tug. It's been attached to my rig at the same place for 20 years and I know exactly where it is.

If you have a OOA situation you have two alternatives to grab, one of which will not provide air.

What are you talking about? Which one will not provide air?

I am not sure how you can be saying that this or that is better than a combo.

I don't think I could have made myself more clear about why I believe a standard octopus is safer than a combo rig. Obviously you don't agree and that's OK with me.
 
.....However, if any of you are going to be in the Raleigh, NC area this Saturday, we are having a pig pickin at my house at 4:00. Menu is:

Whole hog on the grill
Chickens on the grill
Rosemary Roasted Potatoes
Baked Beans
Pasta Salad
Slaw
Cool Whip Salad
Hush Puppies
All kinds of drinks

Come on!

No brisket? Dang, I would have made the trip....... hush puppies were making it tempting, but.......
 
No brisket? Dang, I would have made the trip....... hush puppies were making it tempting, but.......

We ran out of the hush puppies last year but not this year. Fully prepared.

---------- Post added May 29th, 2013 at 11:37 AM ----------

Gotta get back to Olympus dive center in Morehead city for sand tigers and barbecue...

Dove the Spar two weekends ago. Perhaps some of the largest sand tigers I have ever seen off our coast. Counted 18 just at the bow alone.
 
Dove the Spar two weekends ago. Perhaps some of the largest sand tigers I have ever seen off our coast. Counted 18 just at the bow alone.

Thread hijack, but that's OK, since I think that we have gone as far as we can with the Air2...

The Spar is a terrific wreck. Our club usually runs a trip down there, but we didn't this year. Too bad. I'm running a trip for them up to the Thousand Islands, but doubt we'll see sand tigers! Maybe a big muskie...
 
The point is that posting a video of someone calmly doing a skill for a camera on an ascent line doesn't prove much about the gear or technique, that was my point. Maybe DumpsterDiver wouldn't have a problem in a real emergency - he has a ton of dives. But maybe someone else using the Air2 with only 20 dives might, especially when the emergency is unanticipated and real. That's what this discussion is about, that's all. If you really think that there is no difference between the execution of procedures in a drill and in an actual emergency, then I would have to disagree with you, and leave it at that.

Look, gear optimization is always about tinkering around the edges of design, trying to look for minor modes of failure, etc.. It is almost NEVER about having an accident analysis report that shows how this or that device killed someone. With rare exceptions, we don't usually find out what happened in a fatality or serious DCS incident. But that doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile to discuss things here.

None of us has enough experience to actually do a real scientific analysis out of our own log books, so it's always going to be conjecture. And conjecture isn't a bad thing. Hey, we're not diving today anyway, might as well talk about it!

The basis of your argument is that a diver will be "more used to" breathing off an emergency second stage than using an AIR 2 in a real emergency. I think this is a weak argument for several reasons.. First, a normal diver is going to be grabing and operating his AIR 2 SEVERAL times during EVERY dive (inflate and possibly deflate with it). Utilization of the device is unavoidable.

Conversely, a normal diver is NOT going to be locating and utilizing his back up "standard" second stage several times during ever dive. Not to mention, so damn many of them have them positioned TERRIBLY and all too often packed with sand and mud.. Another safety advantage (I forgot).

When I dive with new people, I tell them straight out.. If you need to share air with me, take this reg from my mouth. In general, I would go to my Air 2, monitor my air supply and keep the pony bottle for a real emergency. I have had only a few out of air emergencies when diving. I don't think the presence or absense of the AIR 2 was relevant.

As for the video, not sure what it PROVES, but it does SHOW that using Air 2 and sharing a primary is easy. I just thought it would be a cool sequence to capture with the GOpro on an extension pole. If you want to see a REAL out of air emergency on video, I can show that one too, although things didn't go quite so smoothly...LOL
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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