AdivingBel
Diver
lol...instructors suck, noob divers suck, rec divers are cattle, techs are condescending a**hats...guess this thread made its point....anyone for split fins...moving on 
Shift in Thinking
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Dr. Lecter
Contributor
For my part and those of my fellow CCR group out here, it's more all the MOO MOO MOOing they do underwater. We'll be on a nice wreck doing our intermediate stops after scootering back from a much, much deeper site and all of a sudden...it's like the WKRP Turkey Drop. Falling down all over us, fins to the face, bubbles everywhere...just brutal. Same thing happens when they randomly go up our line rather than the line for the cattle boat that brought them.
To crib from MIB: a recreational diver is great; recreational divers are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
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Ill copy this from TDS to avoid retyping. GUE was linked over there hence the menion in the beginning.
GUE goes a little to the extreme, but there are still places that teach recreational divers to dive properly, unfortunately it is mostly limited to a small handful of universities, but it does still exist.
Unfortunately there is literally no reason to support the industries view of a recreational diver, it is simply an inferior way to dive. It's a fact, there's no point in arguing from that side, it isn't nearly as intuitive, it isn't nearly as safe, it isn't as efficient, etc etc.
Now, that is a diving style as far as equipment and skills are concerned, some of us were lucky enough to be trained properly from the start, I don't know what it is like to flutter kick because I've never done it, I went 2 years of diving before I put a stab jacket on, I have never dove without a suicide strap.
The mentality that some tech divers have gotten as far as "reef bitch", "oh, it's just a quarry, not worth diving", that's a superiority complex that stems from inner insecurities. Sure I'd much rather dive in a cave or a deep wreck than in a quarry, but there's still a lot of cool stuff in quarries and blowing bubbles is better than not. Some people don't want to deal with deco, cold water, multiple bottles, etc. and only want to see the pretty fish, there is no reason you can't look like a "tech diver" but only dive reefs, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some of us also see pushback on gear in this community. I dive Poseidon regulators, I get **** for it every time I dive. I dive sidemount almost exclusively in caves, but rarely in the ocean or off of boats. I get crap for that regularly too, but they are tools for the job. The important bit is no matter if I'm in a transpac with a travel wing for reef diving, doubles with multiple stages and deco bottles for a 200ft+ wreck, or in sidemount with multiple stages and deco bottles for cave diving, I look the same in the water, and having the mentality to help divers that want to get better get to one of those points. I got very spoiled, the university where I got certified has one of the best scuba programs in the world, I truly don't know what it is like to have some of the problems mentioned above because I was taught better than that, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be an elitist and not offer help to those that want to learn. Recreational divers that say tech diving is unsafe or backplates are going to kill you are ignorant fools, tech divers that scoff at reef diving and the recreational community as a whole are a$$es, it's that simple. You can try to help the recreational guys see the light, but it's really hard to get the arrogance out of some of the tech divers.
edit: you can fix the skills and change the gear pretty easily. You have a hard time changing the mentality of divers on both sides...
GUE goes a little to the extreme, but there are still places that teach recreational divers to dive properly, unfortunately it is mostly limited to a small handful of universities, but it does still exist.
Unfortunately there is literally no reason to support the industries view of a recreational diver, it is simply an inferior way to dive. It's a fact, there's no point in arguing from that side, it isn't nearly as intuitive, it isn't nearly as safe, it isn't as efficient, etc etc.
Now, that is a diving style as far as equipment and skills are concerned, some of us were lucky enough to be trained properly from the start, I don't know what it is like to flutter kick because I've never done it, I went 2 years of diving before I put a stab jacket on, I have never dove without a suicide strap.
The mentality that some tech divers have gotten as far as "reef bitch", "oh, it's just a quarry, not worth diving", that's a superiority complex that stems from inner insecurities. Sure I'd much rather dive in a cave or a deep wreck than in a quarry, but there's still a lot of cool stuff in quarries and blowing bubbles is better than not. Some people don't want to deal with deco, cold water, multiple bottles, etc. and only want to see the pretty fish, there is no reason you can't look like a "tech diver" but only dive reefs, and there is nothing wrong with that.
Some of us also see pushback on gear in this community. I dive Poseidon regulators, I get **** for it every time I dive. I dive sidemount almost exclusively in caves, but rarely in the ocean or off of boats. I get crap for that regularly too, but they are tools for the job. The important bit is no matter if I'm in a transpac with a travel wing for reef diving, doubles with multiple stages and deco bottles for a 200ft+ wreck, or in sidemount with multiple stages and deco bottles for cave diving, I look the same in the water, and having the mentality to help divers that want to get better get to one of those points. I got very spoiled, the university where I got certified has one of the best scuba programs in the world, I truly don't know what it is like to have some of the problems mentioned above because I was taught better than that, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to be an elitist and not offer help to those that want to learn. Recreational divers that say tech diving is unsafe or backplates are going to kill you are ignorant fools, tech divers that scoff at reef diving and the recreational community as a whole are a$$es, it's that simple. You can try to help the recreational guys see the light, but it's really hard to get the arrogance out of some of the tech divers.
edit: you can fix the skills and change the gear pretty easily. You have a hard time changing the mentality of divers on both sides...
To each his own. Divers of any level of certification or experience who think everyone else is inferior are not people that I wish to be around. I enjoy my diving. I am am not a techie or deco diver
( with rare exceptions). I like people who are positive in their outlook and communication. I like people who encourage other divers and can enjoy both listening to and telling a good dive story. Lots of the posters here on SB have superior credentials and more dives than I have, and most have less of each. That's ok with me. I did not think this was a competition. How sad that oya is so annoyed by recreational divers. He could learn from some of us, if we could stand being around him. I for one will not miss oya on my next dive, whether it is a tame little reef excursion to 40 feet for an hour to look at pretty fishes, or something much more challenging. Sorry oya. Can't we just all get along? How sad there are people like oya who feel we have to pick sides and denigrate divers who are not just like us.
DivemasterDennis
( with rare exceptions). I like people who are positive in their outlook and communication. I like people who encourage other divers and can enjoy both listening to and telling a good dive story. Lots of the posters here on SB have superior credentials and more dives than I have, and most have less of each. That's ok with me. I did not think this was a competition. How sad that oya is so annoyed by recreational divers. He could learn from some of us, if we could stand being around him. I for one will not miss oya on my next dive, whether it is a tame little reef excursion to 40 feet for an hour to look at pretty fishes, or something much more challenging. Sorry oya. Can't we just all get along? How sad there are people like oya who feel we have to pick sides and denigrate divers who are not just like us.
DivemasterDennis
cb5150
Contributor
As a purely recreational diver, I couldn't care less what anyone thinks about me and I certainly don't waste my time thinking about other rec OR tech divers.
Whether tech or rec, as long as you stay out of my business you'll have no problems.
I'm out to have a good time with good friends and unless you are paying for my dives...well, I just don't see how you matter in my universe.
I think it's great that some divers like to continue their diving education by going tech, but I also love seeing the new diver who experiences the underwater world for the first time...even if they don't have perfect trim and look like a swimming Christmas tree.
Just because you buy a car and learn to drive, doesn't mean you need to become a Formula-1 driver.
Whether tech or rec, as long as you stay out of my business you'll have no problems.
I'm out to have a good time with good friends and unless you are paying for my dives...well, I just don't see how you matter in my universe.
I think it's great that some divers like to continue their diving education by going tech, but I also love seeing the new diver who experiences the underwater world for the first time...even if they don't have perfect trim and look like a swimming Christmas tree.
Just because you buy a car and learn to drive, doesn't mean you need to become a Formula-1 driver.
LeadTurn_SD
Contributor
I'm a Sport Diver. All y'all annoy me: Rec divers with their split fins and bicycle kicks acting like a rototiller, their Christmas Tree gauges hanging off their poodle jackets dragging across my danged reef, and the Tech divers dressed all the same like the Men In Black, obsessing on the best knot to tie off a bolt snap, "Is white webbing DIR?", and frog-kicking like, well, a bunch of frogs... sheesh.
You're all suspect if you need to use a BC, have more than one second stage, and use anything digital to measure depth and time.
Just kidding on all the above, by the way
Dennis, I think you took offense to the point Oya was making, but I don't think offense was actually intended. At least that is not how I read his post. Did you read his bio? He is a recreational instructor.
I've been fascinated to watch the evolution of diving since I started. Rec and Tech did not exist back then. We (older folks reading this will recall) were all Sport Divers. Or Scuba Divers.
I've certainly done dives in the pre-BC days, on air, that would these days most often be done with trimix. I do not consider myself a tech diver, even though these days I mostly "dress" like one... except for the snorkel... and the "bfk" strapped to my calf... a throw back to "Sport Diving" I guess.
About what actually annoys me: Divers who are not "squared away", not ready due to mindset and/or lack of training/experience to be doing the dive they are attempting. Tech divers that I have observed tend to be much more squared away (due to their training, and Men In Black syndrome
), but I've also observed plenty of "Rec" divers who also have their act together, are knowledgeable about their gear and how to properly use it, nothing dangling and flopping in the breeze, good water skills.But then I'm getting grumpier as I age, so take the above with a grain of salt... and for heaven's sake try not to annoy me if you choose to dive on my reef
D).Best wishes.
cb5150
Contributor
If you're not diving professionally, you probably are a recreational diver, no matter how deep, how long, or how far into an overhead environment you go. The distinction between technical diving and recreational diving has no real logical foundation. People who use scuba to retrieve golf balls, clean ship's hulls or weld pipe in the North Sea are not recreational divers, but exploring deep and complex underwater caverns for the sheer pleasure of doing so is by definition recreational diving. The degree of technological complexity involved in some types of diving does not remove it from the realm of recreation.
dreamdive
Contributor
And how much of this is nothing but bloated EGO's???
I mean that in terms of recreational divers blowing their horns, technical divers blowing their horns,.....
An ego belonging to a male, technical wannabe diver once accused me of diving a rebreather so I get all the attention on the boat. Ridiculous! I laugh about it now but was quite speechless! Turned out that he (or better: his ego) felt no longer the admiration of other divers googling over his doubles and VR-3.
People need to relax!
I mean that in terms of recreational divers blowing their horns, technical divers blowing their horns,.....
An ego belonging to a male, technical wannabe diver once accused me of diving a rebreather so I get all the attention on the boat. Ridiculous! I laugh about it now but was quite speechless! Turned out that he (or better: his ego) felt no longer the admiration of other divers googling over his doubles and VR-3.
People need to relax!
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