Shift in Thinking

[lowviz]

...//... listening to recreational prattle puts my teeth on edge.

I don't like this about myself. I was a newbie not that long ago. I still am a newbie in a million ways. And I've got to figure out a way past the prejudice. ...//...

This is an intimidating and exhilarating sport for the typical novice. The "A" types can be expected to cover their insecurities with bravado. IMHO, it is not much more than that. Try talking to the loudest or most annoying one of them. You may find, as I do, that they are simply envious of anyone who has the skills and abilities to dive where they are not permitted to venture.

....the rec divers having just as much fun as the tech divers....and just as able to re-live the experience on the surface interval as the tech guys. On this boat, and many others, there are so many "regulars", that everyone becomes friends, and there is no posturing.
...
I think boats can have a certain ambience...they get it from crew, captain and regulars....and from the sites they visit most often...

I love it, Dan. Yes, boats and captains can be the great equalizer. Absolutely agree. Yes, I am envious of some of the 'big' divers, but they always toss me a bone and welcome me on the boat.

...//... It's VERY hard to watch people who dive poorly brag about it.

Tell them to take fundies.

... I have never felt judged as rec vs tech while diving. ...//... But I have felt that way on SB. And I did get it from many of the "tech" instructors I spoke with about taking tech courses. Somewhat interestingly, I have not seen that attitude among the cave instructors I have personally spoken with. ...

Yeah, it should be an inclusive sport. We can all work to that end...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

....

So I think we can avoid the defective culture of "us versus them", by trying harder to find the right boats to dive on. When we get on the right boat, we also have to make sure that even the brand new novices don't get the idea that we think we are a "higher class of diver" than they are...."We", tech divers, are NOT a higher class of diver. The ultimate goal is to have fun...and a novice can often do this just as well as we can !

I've thought about this fun factor many times. We (us experienced "superior" divers) probably DON'T have as much fun as the novices..

They get hugely excited by seeing a big turtle, a giant jewfish or maybe a Manta Ray if they are lucky.

I've often felt a good bit of jealousy in that, as they gear up for the dive- they are most likely preparing to see a bunch of stuff they have NEVER SEEN BEFORE, while for me (if I am a DM for example)- the best I am hoping to see is that nobody under my watch pulls a "a stupid human trick" that I have never seen before.

As long as the newbie diver has enough skills to do the dive safely and confidently, I have no doubt they are gonna have more fun than me.

 

[drrich2]

While the dividing line between rec. & tech. is artificial, it is still useful at setting a boundary to discourage newbies from venturing into environments & situations where the risks go up exponentially, as does the knowledge & skill base needful to mitigate that risk.

In college I kept a 'Murphy's Law' poster on the wall; one of my favorite sayings from it - Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit. This simple insight has been affirmed in real world experience many times over the years.

As others have mentioned in different words, we tend to see things from our own perspective, distrust the different, and don't like to be outdone. Let's put it all together on a dive boat to the wreck of the Oriskany, a place where rec. & tech. might meet.

Rec. diver with 150 dives, OW, AOW, Nitrox & Rescue gets on the boat. He notices a tech. diver with a big set of doubles (looks very heavy, bulky & cumbersome) with a manifold (looks complicated) & long hose (looks strange) with a stage bottle or two (looks cluttered, heavy, cumbersome) who is overheard mentioning his tech. training - Advanced Nitrox, some Tech. courses to go very deep & do deco., etc...From the Rec. diver's perspective, several grand in gear, training & travel to get the training, all to go maybe 100 feet deeper, stay longer but dragging along a lot more gear on the dive & enduring boring deco. stops, taking on more danger, at great depth without a lot of the color or coral reef structures. Seems a little...silly.

That tech. diver's been eye-balling rec. boy out of the corner of his eye. Sees Rec. Boy has an Air2 & split fins plus a jacket BCD, which Tech. Dude sees as suboptimal and a waste of a lot of money since that'll all need replacing if he 'advances' into tech. diving later. Oh, and that wireless AI transmitter? Yeah, doesn't like that either. Poor shmuck doesn't know how ignorant he is. And our tech. guy doesn't need AI on his wrist because he is so dialed in on gas consumption, and so adheres to his rigorous dive plan, that he knows his gas supplies roughly for any point in the dive, with the SPG as a double-check. But he plans with a diligence the rec. guy doesn't dream of. And Tech. Dude is now more aware of what he 'didn't know he didn't know' when he was diving recreationally, so he's more aware of Rec. Guy's somewhat sloppy technique, mediocre buoyancy, questionable gear choices and 'follow the leader' (guide) & be back on the boat with 500 PSI approach to dive planning.

Now maybe somehow these two come to interact. What could go wrong?

Richard (Rec. only so far).

 

[tomfcrist]

I've thought about this fun factor many times. We (us experienced "superior" divers) probably DON'T have as much fun as the novices..

They get hugely excited by seeing a big turtle, a giant jewfish or maybe a Manta Ray if they are lucky.

I've often felt a good bit of jealousy in that, as they gear up for the dive- they are most likely preparing to see a bunch of stuff they have NEVER SEEN BEFORE, while for me (if I am a DM for example)- the best I am hoping to see is that nobody under my watch pulls a "a stupid human trick" that I have never seen before.

As long as the newbie diver has enough skills to do the dive safely and confidently, I have no doubt they are gonna have more fun than me.

I can see that to an extent. A lot of us that have seen most of the little things 2-300 times have found something else to interest us on dives though.

I mostly dive wrecks, and lucky for me, they are constantly changing. It's hard for me to get bored on a wreck dive. If I had to dive the same reef over and over again...I'd pull my fingernails out just to pass the time.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

One of the reasons I so much enjoy taking newer divers out is the great satisfaction I get from showing them something for their first time ... whether it's a critter, a dive site, or a particular type of animal behavior. It might be something I've seen hundreds of times before ... but their reaction helps me never take it for granted.

I just don't get the attraction to "divisions" in how we dive. Fortunately I live in a place where most folks feel that way. One of my favorite pictures was taken at a local club dive a couple years ago by a friend of mine ... shows three guys going out for a fun dive together ... without even a hint of a "fence" between them ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[agilis]

While the dividing line between rec. & tech. is artificial, it is still useful at setting a boundary to discourage newbies from venturing into environments & situations where the risks go up exponentially, as does the knowledge & skill base needful to mitigate that risk.

In college I kept a 'Murphy's Law' poster on the wall; one of my favorite sayings from it - Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit. This simple insight has been affirmed in real world experience many times over the years.

As others have mentioned in different words, we tend to see things from our own perspective, distrust the different, and don't like to be outdone. Let's put it all together on a dive boat to the wreck of the Oriskany, a place where rec. & tech. might meet.

Rec. diver with 150 dives, OW, AOW, Nitrox & Rescue gets on the boat. He notices a tech. diver with a big set of doubles (looks very heavy, bulky & cumbersome) with a manifold (looks complicated) & long hose (looks strange) with a stage bottle or two (looks cluttered, heavy, cumbersome) who is overheard mentioning his tech. training - Advanced Nitrox, some Tech. courses to go very deep & do deco., etc...From the Rec. diver's perspective, several grand in gear, training & travel to get the training, all to go maybe 100 feet deeper, stay longer but dragging along a lot more gear on the dive & enduring boring deco. stops, taking on more danger, at great depth without a lot of the color or coral reef structures. Seems a little...silly.

That tech. diver's been eye-balling rec. boy out of the corner of his eye. Sees Rec. Boy has an Air2 & split fins plus a jacket BCD, which Tech. Dude sees as suboptimal and a waste of a lot of money since that'll all need replacing if he 'advances' into tech. diving later. Oh, and that wireless AI transmitter? Yeah, doesn't like that either. Poor shmuck doesn't know how ignorant he is. And our tech. guy doesn't need AI on his wrist because he is so dialed in on gas consumption, and so adheres to his rigorous dive plan, that he knows his gas supplies roughly for any point in the dive, with the SPG as a double-check. But he plans with a diligence the rec. guy doesn't dream of. And Tech. Dude is now more aware of what he 'didn't know he didn't know' when he was diving recreationally, so he's more aware of Rec. Guy's somewhat sloppy technique, mediocre buoyancy, questionable gear choices and 'follow the leader' (guide) & be back on the boat with 500 PSI approach to dive planning.

Now maybe somehow these two come to interact. What could go wrong?

Richard (Rec. only so far).

What ever happened to minding your own business? Why are these people critically 'eye-balling' each other? They sound like insecure junior high school girls at their first dance.

Later that night the tech diver was seen wearing white socks and brown shoes with a blue suit that was sprinkled with dandruff. The sophisticated rec diver was filled with justifiable loathing and wondered how such people were able to function in society.

Why do some people give a damn how other people choose to amuse themselves? It's all so incredibly infantile. I suggest a Zen approach to diving. Look inward.

 

[lowviz]

... Look inward.

Yes. While helping others that seek direction...

 

[drrich2]

Most of the time, they do mind their own business and say nothing to each other. That said, many people tend to be observant of those around them, the human mind tends to key in on differences, and the mind follows up with some analysis, however wrong-headed or over-the-top it might turn out to be.

Then again, despite his initial reaction, the rec. guy may be inspired to a bit of curiosity. After the dive, he might ask the tech. guy what he saw on his dive. If the tech. guy is polite, and shares that he enjoyed a penetration dive and saw a bull shark cruising the perimeter of the base of the ship, and mentions some other deep sites he couldn't reach without technical training, the rec. guy may have some things to think about.

It can go either way. Both guys are entitled to their opinions. It's when people decide to express them to others that discretion comes into play.

Richard.

 

[Storker]

Dang, that was a big-a$$ single. What type is it?

 

[WarrenZ]

I guess Ive been lucky in that most of the diving Ive been doing I have never had to define the line between rec vs tec diver. Unfortunately around here there is almost no tec divers to hang with or hide from whatever your outlook may be What I have seen more of is the difference in thinking of a "prepared safe and confident diver" and the "diver who will follow the crowd" and knows that their buddy or divemaster is taking care of them. Guess which group I would rather be with.

However I will try to help educate newish divers if they are wanting to dive with me. It never gets old seeing the change in the "I'll follow along" diver after I let/make them plan the dive a couple of times.