What is the right order for this drill?

[nereas]

Here is the 'answer' from the person that used to do the above during military training..
Remember this was a long time ago .. way before I started diving and it was not OW training.
The bottom line is "it depends on your depth"
Frank,

If you are below 60 ft, the CO2 will not do that much...assume that you already have some air in the thing... very little more will be added. your buoyancy will not go up much.. and you are farther from the surface. Get air..the mask is never important.

If you are above 30 ft, who cares about the air or the mask.. stop the stupid accent. We did free accents from 60 to 100 ft all the time (stupid.. I know, but you don't worry about air as much). The vest would go from empty to completely full.

Between 30 and 60 - humm depends on how you are weighted. You had better know that before the event started. I always went for the vest.

I should point two things out:

1. We were using doubles, so reaching the valve was easy.

2. You would never see the person that did this to you.. sometimes just the mask, sometime more.. but if they did your vest.. they would be behind you, pointed down, holding on.. just in case it went wrong.

Military? OK that explains the level of intellect.

Like I said, turn your air back on first. That is your biggest problem.

Singles or doubles, if your tank(s) is(are) properly mounted, you should be able to easily reach the valve either way. If you cannot, you are not yet properly trained.

 

[matt_unique]

Step 4: Find the moron who did this and pound their face until emergency medical care is required for survival.

--Matt

 

[muddiver]

SCUBA training as we know it came out of the military, primarily the Navy SEALS. That is where this drill came from and I believe it was a course requirement way back in the primordial period of SCUBA certification when L.A. County (that's the California version) was the only certifying agency.

Yea, in todays reality of quick classes and resort divers it would be a very bad drill to include in a class. I am sure PADI would sue an instructor who did that in their class just to distance themselves from the liability. That is the other thing besides money that they are in to.

 

[opalobsidian]

Hmmmm

In this thread everyone pretty much agrees that the psycho who put us in this situation should get dealt some big whoopass.

However, on the thread regarding panic situations ("death from overweighting" in Accidents and Occurances) the general consensus leans in favor of teaching dive students how to react calmly to emergency situations by having them experience more high stress drills like the one described in this thread.

Any thoughts?

 

[muddiver]

Make sure your liability insurance is paid.

 

[under water]

Hmmmm

In this thread everyone pretty much agrees that the psycho who put us in this situation should get dealt some big whoopass.

However, on the thread regarding panic situations ("death from overweighting" in Accidents and Occurances) the general consensus leans in favor of teaching dive students how to react calmly to emergency situations by having them experience more high stress drills like the one described in this thread.

Any thoughts?

I think that at least a mental drill is needed, similar to what this poll is.
For more technical diving, I believe that some level of failure testing in the water is needed and I think it is done.
In OW training you need to be able to take your reg out and find it again. I don't think you need to be able to reach around turn off your air and turn it back on. Maybe that would be a good test. How many of us know that if somehow we jumped off the boat overweighted and our air was 1/4 turn on instead if all the way on we would be able to open it up ourselves. Yes we shouldn't be jumping off a boat overweighted.. but it does happen (steel tanks, forgot about those weights in the pockets, etc). Even if you aren't overweighted.. jumping off the boat with an almost closed valve probably happens with some level of frequency and a lot of crap can happen on the surface.

Getting control of runaway ascents is hard to practice without putting yourself at some risk. I have had it happen to me in Vancouver Island with about 15 dives under my belt and all rental gear, stiff current, low viz and the first time in non-tropical water. Those 7 MM farmer johns, hoods, etc and all the extra weight to compensate is a lot of bouyancy to manage and adjusting descent by putting air in the BC can cause you to skyrocket if you don't do it a little bit at a time. (lesson learned!).
There is something to be said for learning to dive in more challenging climes.

By the way, the person that told me about this training also told me about the "octopus test" (real octopus, not safe second) which makes this scenario seem mild. He admits these weren't the wisest things to do, but it was close to the norm for military training back in the old days.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Oh, in tech diving many 'scenarios' are thrown in the mix. I don't believe these are what we are talking about here. The premise assumed was OW instruction (Basic Scuba discussions forum).

Yes it behooves any and all divers to look at, play out a dive mentally and practice emergencies. Don't forget the buddy, he/she is there to help and be the back up. That also needs to be practiced..... how many divers practice a gas share regularly, or have a buddy hold on to the other to slow down ascend or decend, or guide the other with eyes closed (simulating lost mask)?

 

[DiverBeth]

I say first bc, then air, then mask, get back to the surface and on the boat. Tell the captain what happened and leave the without the {censored} who did it to you.

 

[under water]

Oh, in tech diving many 'scenarios' are thrown in the mix. I don't believe these are what we are talking about here. The premise assumed was OW instruction (Basic Scuba discussions forum).

Yes it behooves any and all divers to look at, play out a dive mentally and practice emergencies. Don't forget the buddy, he/she is there to help and be the back up. That also needs to be practiced..... how many divers practice a gas share regularly, or have a buddy hold on to the other to slow down ascend or decend, or guide the other with eyes closed (simulating lost mask)?

Agreed. Granted this is not done in OW training, but to think it through and maybe talk it through should be done anyway. To know that there may be a different solutions depending on your depth should be thought through.
To understand that while your air is off and you are in an ascent you still need to breath out.. heck.. breathing out is what you need to do to help stop the ascent.
But that is a scary thing to do when you don't have air. That does need practice.
Yes the buddy option is there, so getting to your buddy would be a priority .. perhaps tipping the scale in favor of getting the ascent in control (bc vs air) even deeper.
This kind of excercise is like the case studies that you do in school. You learn by discussing how you would handle a situation.
Practicing the scenarios that you mentioned with a buddy is ideal and recommended.
I would even go further and take the mask off rather than close eyes during practice.