When is it OK for a dive buddy to leave another diver?

[Bubbletrubble]

The OP may have been the one to abandon the buddy, but it happened in 20' of water on a down line, and sounds like she was aware of her buddies status, like on the surface. You are correct she abandoned him. Or did he leave her as it did not sound like there was any mutual agreement on what was happening? Certainly they were not communicating well. He was supposed to be the experienced diver, but he was not experienced which the OP was counting on.

Regardless of who caused the buddy separation, it was clearly a failure of the buddy team to handle a fairly common challenge in scuba diving.
In my mind, the experience level of the OP's buddy is irrelevant. Any diver fresh out of basic OW class should be able to handle the discussed scenario.

I actually find the practice of pairing new divers together rather irresponsible... but that's a topic for a different discussion.

In principle, there shouldn't be a problem pairing up novice divers, provided that they are properly trained and dive within their experience/training. Unfortunately, few instructors talk enough about how to be a good buddy and how to handle typical scenarios that divers face. Moreover, many people lack the insight and/or assertiveness to avoid getting in over their heads.

I do hope that, if the OP feels up to it, she finds a good instructor to work with her on her dive and buddy skills.

 

[doctormike]

I don't want to seem like I am piling on to the OP. I know that we should be encouraging to new divers having problems, but on the other hand, I think that it is our responsibility to head off accidents waiting to happen (like this scenario). If she really wants to dive, then she should do what it takes to make that happen.

One of the things she needs to learn - most definitely - is that she is solely responsible for her own safety. A theme that ripples through her story is that she allowed others to make decisions for her that she did not question, essentially bowing to their perceived greater knowledge and experience.

This is an excellent point, and really sums it up. We are not talking about a Doria dive here, I don't have all the details of the dive (temp, visibility, current, etc...), but it doesn't sound like something out of the range of a basic OW dive.

If the OP is really so terrified of an open water dive that she can only consider it if she has a buddy who promises to hold her hand for the whole dive, then she is not certified, no matter what the card in her wallet says. What would she have done if her buddy had to bail on her away from the downline and any other diver? What if he had a medical problem?

I don't think her buddy was in the wrong - if I am distressed and need to surface, whether my buddy comprehends what I am trying to signal him or not, I am going up. Whether he follows me or not is his choice, but go up I must, mutual agreement be damned. I'm in distress, remember? There is no buddy agreement in the world that is going to keep me down just because my buddy doesn't understand if it means endangering myself. My buddy is the one with the choice to make, not me.

Exactly. If I was having an emergency, I wouldn't like to think that I needed to physically drag my buddy along because she wasn't capable of following me up the ascent line.

I was overwhelmed enough with getting thru my first dive let alone confronting him about his actions. I wanted to say something, but no words would come. I swallowed them down & resolved never, ever to dive with that person again.

EllieMay, not sure if you are still reading this thread, and I hope that you understand that I'm not trying to beat up on you. We try very hard to encourage new divers here, but we also care about safety. I do think that you need to look at this from a different point of view. I hope that you take our points to heart if you decide to continue diving.

You don't give any backstory about your relationship to this buddy, but there must have been some reason why he wanted to dive with you. From a buddy's point of view, I'm not sure why I would want to dive with someone who was totally dependent on me holding their hand for the whole dive, and who was in no position to help me if I had a problem. It seems that at this point if you are going to dive, you need to dive with a professional who would be paid to fill this role.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Hi everyone

I'm new here and quite new to diving. I'd really appreciate some feedback on something that's bothered me for some time. Basically, I have an irrational fear of running out of air at depth. To conquer it & push thru it, I decided to get my open water certification. I'm also partially blind which I suppose doesn't really make me feel all that comfortable underwater. The first time I went for certification, I failed b/c I panicked. I took extra lessons after that.

Got my certification eventually & my buddy - who was a much more experienced diver than I - signed us up for ocean 2 dives. A 40' & a 60'. Probably very tame by others standards but I was terribly frightened about it, which my buddy knew b/c I told him. Plus I was shaking. He knew my concerns & fears, they were not news to him. He promised to hold my hand during the dive. The instructor briefed us on the boat, all divers hopped off & went down the rope to the dive site. They waited at the bottom for us. My buddy & I were the last off the boat. I went down the rope first, buddy was behind me.

Now. Please note, I am not trying to criticise anyone here, nor bag them out. All I'm trying to do is to ascertain 'what should have been done?' in your opinions ... b/c to this day, I still don't know.

So. 20' down the rope, my buddy tapped on my tank, got my attention, pointed to his head & swam to the surface. I didn't know what to do b/c he didn't take me with him. As I was new, it was my first dive, I was afraid & he had promised to hold my hand, being left wasn't something I factored in. So I just held onto the rope, breathed hard, started crying (hard to accomplish in a mask), didn't throw up but wanted to.

Finally slowed it all down. Decided to keep going down the rope. The others were waiting & I felt obliged to keep going. Anyway, I got to the bottom, instructor was all "eh?" in hand signals, I communicated that my buddy was on the surface. the instructor checked my air, gave the OK and off we went. I gripped his hand like a vice.

The dive ended, I was the last in & one of the first out b/c I'd chewed up so much air. When we all got back to the boat, the instructor asked my buddy why he got out. He said he couldn't equalize. No further discussion was entered into. He didn't apologise to me for ditching me on the rope. I did the 2nd dive, which was as fraught as the 1st. Dive buddy sat that one out too.

Anyway. In that kind of scenario, I'd be glad of some feedback on what would have been the correct way for all of us to have handled that situation. ie: the dive buddy, me and the instructor.

Thanks so much for reading this long question!
Ellie

PS: I haven't dived since. The whole experience was terribly unpleasant.
PSS: FWIW former dive buddy & I are not on speaking terms so I won't be sharing anyone's thoughts with him!

Having just scanned through the responses, I'm going to weigh in on a few things I either didn't see mentioned, or that I disagree with.

First ... for Ellie ... a couple of questions.

What is your relationship to the dive buddy? I ask because, as an instructor, I have found that often the most difficult people to buddy up with are people you're involved in a relationship with. There are interpersonal behavior patterns and expectations that tend to get in the way of normal buddy communication ... and often that will lead to confusion once underwater. If your dive buddy is a significant other or family member, my first recommendation is to find a different buddy ... at least for the "learning" phase.

Secondly, was learning how to dive something you desired, or was it something that you got into because someone else wanted you to? Diving is a wonderful activity ... but it's not for everyone, and I get the sense from your posts that you have some pretty serious reservations about doing it. You should only be taking diving lessons because you want to. And if you truly do want to, then all these other concerns you've expressed can be resolved with appropriate training and application.

So let's talk about some of those concerns.

First, you say you have "an irrational fear of running out of air at depth". Let me assure you that there's nothing irrational about that concern ... but it's one that is easily managed. What you need to do is learn how to manage it, and then develop some confidence in your ability to do so. Fears like this typically come from seeing a problem, but not seeing your way to the solution to the problem. A good start is learning HOW to manage your air underwater. For most new divers, starting out by learning to check your pressure gauge frequently is adequate. For some, however, they need to feel more assurance. On my website you'll find an article that explains air consumption for diving. A lot of it will be a bit more than you need to know as a beginner diver, but reading it might give you some information that will help you form your own solutions to managing that particular fear. You can find the article here ... NWGratefulDiver.com

Next, let's talk about your reference to panic. The urge to bolt to the surface is not uncommon among people who are just learning how to dive ... it's a sign of a healthy sense of survival, in fact. But underwater it can be an unhealthy urge ... and one of the major reasons why you do your initial training in a pool is so that you can overcome that urge before exposing yourself to an open water circumstance, where the repurcussions of panic can become significantly worse. My thinking is that perhaps what you need to do before attempting another open water dive is hire a DM or instructor to spend some more time with you in the pool, working on building up your confidence in handling skills and, basically, "rewiring" your mind's instictive responses to be able to more calmly deal with the expectations of open water diving. I often work with students who need additional pool time ... and usually an extra session or two in the pool is all it takes to overcome the issues that bring about their fear. Perhaps this would also work for you.

As for what happened with your buddy ... first off, because you were in a class the situation you described led to an inherent conflict ... do I stick with my buddy or stick with the instructor? In an entry-level class, the instructor is not supposed to be putting students in a situation where they are faced with making that decision. The instructor should have been close enough to supervise your actions and intervene directly to any potential problems such as buddy separation. You are learning ... and decision-making is a huge part of that process. You made a choice to stick with the instructor, and the instructor made the decision to continue the dive. This is an unusual decision, because if I'm teaching a class and one of the class participants bails on the dive, I would take the entire class back to the surface to ascertain what was going on before deciding to continue. Without being there, I cannot explain why the instructor made the decision that he did ... but reading your comments does make me wonder how the instructor was assured that he didn't have someone on the surface in serious need of assistance ... and why he didn't decide to ascend to find out. As described, I'd question the actions of the instructor to continue the dive.

And to address the title question ... when is it OK for a dive buddy to leave another diver? Well, I'll disagree with those who say never. It's OK to leave a dive buddy when staying with your dive buddy would put you in a situation that threatens your safety. This would include a dive buddy who is diving in an irresponsible manner ... a dive buddy who does not respond properly to an "ascend" signal ... a dive buddy who is diving in a way that causes you stress (for example, someone who you have to struggle to keep up with and doesn't slow down when you signal them to do so) ... or a dive buddy who is simply oblivious to your communications. You leave these dive buddies and ascend to end the dive ... because NOT doing so would put you in a stress cycle that produces an ever-increasing risk of a bad outcome.

Getting back to your situation ... you should have followed your buddy to the surface. When in doubt ... end the dive! In this case, the instructor should have made that call ... but one of the most important lessons to learn in scuba diving is that your instructor isn't responsible for your safety ... you are. If faced with a situation like this again, go to the surface with your buddy ... because they just might need your help to make it back to the boat.

In summary, Ellie, my advice to you is as follows:

- Put some serious thought into why you want to learn to scuba dive.
- If you decide this is something you truly want to do ... and don't allow anyone else but yourself to decide that for you ... then go back to the pool and address your concerns there. Work on identifying what it is that is causing your stress, and stay in the pool until you've developed confidence in your ability to deal with those stress issues. THEN it's time to go apply your skills in the open water.
- Learn how to be more proactive with buddy communication. There's are several good threads on ScubaBoard that address this topic ... here's one that's worth reading ...

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...g/303962-best-practices-being-good-buddy.html

None of what you've experienced so far is particularly unusual among those who are just learning how to dive ... but we're all unique, and how we deal with these issues is really up to each of us. Above all else, remember that we do this for fun. If it's not fun, you really need to start by asking yourself why ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[doctormike]

As for what happened with your buddy ... first off, because you were in a class the situation you described led to an inherent conflict ... do I stick with my buddy or stick with the instructor? In an entry-level class, the instructor is not supposed to be putting students in a situation where they are faced with making that decision. The instructor should have been close enough to supervise your actions and intervene directly to any potential problems such as buddy separation. You are learning ... and decision-making is a huge part of that process. You made a choice to stick with the instructor, and the instructor made the decision to continue the dive. This is an unusual decision, because if I'm teaching a class and one of the class participants bails on the dive, I would take the entire class back to the surface to ascertain what was going on before deciding to continue. Without being there, I cannot explain why the instructor made the decision that he did ... but reading your comments does make me wonder how the instructor was assured that he didn't have someone on the surface in serious need of assistance ... and why he didn't decide to ascend to find out. As described, I'd question the actions of the instructor to continue the dive.

Awesome post, Bob (as usual!).

But one thing... from what I can tell, she wasn't in a class, this was a regular open water dive (led by an instructor). So while there is often an inclination to stay with a group on a guided tour, it doesn't sound like there was a training reason for her to continue the dive without her buddy.

It sounds as if she communicated to the instructor that her buddy had surfaced, and the instructor decided to pair her up with someone else at depth. Giving the instructor the benefit of the doubt, maybe it was very clear and shallow water (40'? 60'?), and he was able to be sure that her buddy was not only on the surface but on the boat? Not sure about that part...

 

[offthewall1]

Ellie,

I am of the mind set that there is no such thing as a dive buddy and that this whole premise has made the industry and its divers much less safe.

You should not be diving IMHO until you are comfortable and confident in your own skills and feel good about your ability to "self rescue."

In your scenario - and by extension - all other scenarios, a buddy should not be depended upon for anything. If a buddy does end up helping you out in a situation - god bless him or her... but don't expect it and certainly don't make your life dependent on it.

The event you describe sounds like the most ideal situation you could have been in. You were only 20' down the line and your buddy went up. I'm not sure what you mean by your buddy didn't take you with him. Was he supposed to carry you up the line? He could just as easily argue that you abandoned him by not folowing him back to the surface. What if he was having equipment problems or god forbid a heart attack and you let him go to the surface by himself?

The buddy system works both ways. He/she is of no use to you - if you are no use to him/her.

I can chew you out for continuing your dive without your buddy... but I won't. You went on your dive and buddied up with the group.. so be it... but did you at least ensure your buddy made it back to the surface safely?

To answer your question - the proper thing to have done was to follow your buddy back to the surface, figure out what was going on - and then move forward from there.

A couple of years ago an - experienced diver caused the death of someone in a very similar situation as the one you describe. Their buddy ascended and they continued on their dive. The buddy got into trouble on the surface as he was swept away from the boat. A boat crew member went in to save the buddy being swept away - and ended up dying. Had the divers buddy surfaced with the diver, it is likely this tragic incident would have had a different outcome.

I recommend getting comfortable with your own skills before any future diving... and one of the best ways to do this is to take the Rescue course offered by your training agency.

Happy & Safe diving...

 

[doctormike]

I recommend getting comfortable with your own skills before any future diving... and one of the best ways to do this is to take the Rescue course offered by your training agency.

Happy & Safe diving...

Another terrific post, and one that I almost completely agree with. Except for this last suggestion.

Rescue is a fantastic course, I think that every certified diver should take it.

But reading the OP's description of how she felt on this dive, there is no way that she should be trying to pick up new skills at this point. The OP was shaking with fear before the dive, and crying in terror at 20 feet (while holding on to an ascent line) because she was no longer holding her buddies hand. The last thing that she needs is task loading and a lot of new information. She needs to reassess whether or not she wants to dive, and then get to the point (with a dive professional, hopefully) where she can do a basic dive and be comfortable with the knowledge that she is the only one responsible for her own safety.

 

[ScubaLeeber]

It's really not okay for a dive buddy to leave another. I was lucky to have excellent instructors, all of them military or prior military, so they had jobs that didn't require them to make a huge profit from their instruction. They emphasized safety and that dive buddies should never leave each other...as a matter of safety. One of the worst situations to be in, in my experience, is the one where three people are on a dive together...two inevitably end up pairing up and one is left alone. Not a safe situation. Never agree to diving in 3s.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's really not okay for a dive buddy to leave another. I was lucky to have excellent instructors, all of them military or prior military, so they had jobs that didn't require them to make a huge profit from their instruction. They emphasized safety and that dive buddies should never leave each other...as a matter of safety. One of the worst situations to be in, in my experience, is the one where three people are on a dive together...two inevitably end up pairing up and one is left alone. Not a safe situation. Never agree to diving in 3s.

I can't agree with either of your premises here.

First ... let's address the "never leave your dive buddy" concept. I'll do it by describing two situations that I know actually happened.

Scenario 1 - two divers are diving on a popular wreck ... the HMCS Sasketchewan, a prepared vessel sunk as a recreational dive site. Both divers are AOW certified, and reasonably experienced as recreational divers. Both are using typical recreational equipment, which is suitable for diving along the external parts of this wreck. But neither diver is qualified to enter the vessel. About 20 minutes into the dive, they come upon an open hatchway, and one diver goes inside. Do you ... his dive buddy ... follow him in?

Scenario 2 - two divers are doing a shore dive at a popular recreational site. One diver is reasonably experienced, is diving nitrox, and is diving a HP120 cylinder. The other diver is far less experienced, is diving air, and is using a rental AL80. The divers have discussed and agreed to a dive plan that would have them diving to a max depth of about 80 feet. However, upon hitting that depth, the more experience diver continues downslope. The less experienced diver gets his buddy's attention and signals to level off. The buddy signals back OK, and then proceeds to swim deeper. Do you ... his dive buddy ... just keep on following him down the slope?

The point is that there are very few ... if any ... situations in scuba diving where "never" is applied in all circumstances. You have to use judgment. And when you decide that following a dive buddy puts you in an unsafe situation, you then have to weigh the advantages of sticking with your buddy against the disadvantages of doing so. And if doing so puts you at an unacceptable risk of ending up a casualty, then you should NOT follow your dive buddy into that situation.

First rule of rescue is don't put yourself at an unacceptable risk of becoming a second casualty.

Now ... on to your "never dive a threesome" comment. That is patently incorrect. You said "two inevitably end up pairing up and one is left alone". There is nothing "inevitable" about that circumstance ... it is the sign of people who simply don't know what they're doing. Many responsible divers dive as threesomes regularly ... and keep track of each other just fine. Like anything else in diving, there is a technique to it, and as long as the divers follow that technique there is nothing unsafe ... or even particularly difficult ... about it. What is unsafe is attempting something without understanding how to do it properly ... and that can be applied to almost anything we do in diving.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

It's really not okay for a dive buddy to leave another. I was lucky to have excellent instructors, all of them military or prior military, so they had jobs that didn't require them to make a huge profit from their instruction. They emphasized safety and that dive buddies should never leave each other...as a matter of safety. One of the worst situations to be in, in my experience, is the one where three people are on a dive together...two inevitably end up pairing up and one is left alone. Not a safe situation. Never agree to diving in 3s.

This thread is giving us some absolute rules. This one seems to sum them up. Let me describe a situation I was in earlier this year.

Three of us were planning to dive together to a deep (260 foot) wreck. Chartering the boat was very expensive, as was the price of the gases we were breathing. Because of situations too complex to describe here, we had to work very hard against a current to get to the descent line. When we got there, at a depth of about 15 feet, one of our group felt he was too spent to continue. He signaled that he was going to go back to the boat, with the clear understanding that he expected the two of us to complete the dive as a standard buddy team. We did, and we had a great dive.

Ask yourself what would have gone through the mind of the diver who aborted if he had known we would all abort if he decided not to do the dive. He would have been thinking of the hundreds of dollars we had each spent on a dive that we were not going to have a chance to repeat. (Getting back onto the boat and repeating the entry was not an option.) This knowledge would have put pressure on him to continue the dive, despite his misgivings. Knowing that we could continue safely without him allowed him do what he wanted without any pressure.

We thus violated two "absolutes." In the same situation, I would do it again.

 

[doctormike]

I can't agree with either of your premises here.

At first, I thought that you were going to comment on the premise that civilian instructors are inherently inferior, and since they have to make a huge profit they don't teach as much safety...