where do the Octopus and Computer go on Halcyon Pioneer BP/WINGS

[tinman]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Shame...shame...shame, O-ring. Donating the reg from your mouth works just fine in a PADI class and is within standards. The instructor may not like it but PADI doesn't care.

...I'm DM'ing with a 7' long hose and necklaced Octo and was wondering if I would face the same objection O-ring has faced. Could you elaborate on "PADI doesn't care". Do the lawyers care? I suspect the argument would be that it is confusing for students to see an air sharing drill with someone donating from their primary reg while they are expecting to do it from their Octo.

I don't want to change my reg. configuration back to what I see as an inferior set-up so I would welcome any further ammunition you might have Mike to combat this view as being inappropriate in an OW or AOW class scenario...

P.S. Sorry Dxtreme, its seems I have continued the hijacking of your thread...

 

[O-ring]

tinman once bubbled...


...I'm DM'ing with a 7' long hose and necklaced Octo and was wondering if I would face the same objection O-ring has faced. Could you elaborate on "PADI doesn't care". Do the lawyers care? I suspect the argument would be that it is confusing for students to see an air sharing drill with someone donating from their primary reg while they are expecting to do it from their Octo.

I don't want to change my reg. configuration back to what I see as an inferior set-up so I would welcome any further ammunition you might have Mike to combat this view as being inappropriate in an OW or AOW class scenario...

I hope Mike can arm you with the appropriate ammo. I don't have a lot of say in the matter however...the instructor told me that is the gear setup I need to use for the pool sessions and, barring a big argument with him, I don't see a way around it.

 

[Scubaroo]

My regular buddy is doing his DM course, and was told to lose the AirII and get a regular octopus, as his instructors didn't want students to be confused when he donates from the mouth.

So much for exposing students to real-world setups.

 

[AzAtty]

Tinman once bubbled...
Do the lawyers care?

I can assure you that Northeastwrecks and myself, both lawyers, do not care if you use a long hose to DM. In fact, I think we'd both prefer you to use the long hose.

Or did you mean PADI's lawyers...

 

[Mo2vation]

Got the SPG as my first step towards weaning off my the brain-rotting computer. And during this process (do they make a step-down patch for this stuff yet?) I'm still using my AI computer (DataTrans+). I added a triglide and D ring to fit up against my left ACB, just left of my "knife". I clip the computer / compass mini-brick to that forward D ring, on the retractor. I clip the SPG off to the left ACB D ring.

I originally liked having the compass and the computer together - easier to monitor depth and direction that way - but I'm getting tired of reaching for the computer.... it and the compass are going wrist mount this weekend as my 1/4 bungee just came in.

For the Octo / getting-in-step-with-the-corporation's-uniform- thing....that's a tough one for me. I'm struggling with that now myself.

The LDS I currently have a relationship with and I have been discussing their Dive Con program. Its a cool program - but what I really want is the aditional training - the blending, the stress rescue, the first aid, the tech/repair stuff, etc, etc.... All that sounds great. My issue with the Dive Con program is I'll need to either maintain two rigs (my BP/W long hose DIR for non-Dive Con diving) or go back to my SSI rig (BC, octo, etc, etc...)

Its completely reasonable for them to presume and insist that their Dive Cons wear the colors and sport the gear the shop sells, and wear a rig like the students you'll be corralling. I'm completely OK with that. You can't be sporting a DIR rig when the shop isn't a DIR shop. Especially if you are traching within a strongly structured program.

I'm struggling with the trade off. I have no aspirations to teach or become an instructor at present - I don't think I do. I'd probably be a lousy teacher. But I do want the training... And the lure of discount trips/comp trips to Dive Cons that assist DM's during the program is a strong one - just not sure I want to pay the price.

You know, I'm taking this thread off course. I need to internalize some of this a bit more and I'll get back to the board in another thread that is more concise. This is the sound of a hijacker capping himself.

Sorry -

K

 

[MikeFerrara]

tinman once bubbled...


...I'm DM'ing with a 7' long hose and necklaced Octo and was wondering if I would face the same objection O-ring has faced. Could you elaborate on "PADI doesn't care". Do the lawyers care? I suspect the argument would be that it is confusing for students to see an air sharing drill with someone donating from their primary reg while they are expecting to do it from their Octo.

I don't want to change my reg. configuration back to what I see as an inferior set-up so I would welcome any further ammunition you might have Mike to combat this view as being inappropriate in an OW or AOW class scenario...

P.S. Sorry Dxtreme, its seems I have continued the hijacking of your thread...

What I meant when I said that PADI doesn't care was that donating the reg from your mouth is within the standards as is an air2 type set up or a standard octo config. It's up to the instructor.

As far as what will be demonstrated to students and which methode they will use, it's up to the instructor (as long as it's within standards). The only advice I can give is to talk it over with the instructor. As a DM candidate or a DM you are more of a peer than a student. IMO, it's your job to make suggestions, ask questions, ect. I also think it's important for the teaching staff to all be on the same page. I have had DM's leave because they think all my "tech" stuff is totally inappropriate for OW divers. We just couldn't agree. Obviously it wouldn't be a good idea to explain to the instructor how off the wall their methode is during a class and in front of students but I think there is a chance that a good instructor approached in an appropriate way will be open minded. Try getting the instructor to watch or participate in a demonstration of sharing air with a "longer" hose and bungied backup. Lots of divers including instructors have just never seen it before.

Of course there is always the chance that the instructor is completely inflexable. In that case the only decission left is whether of noy you want to work with that instructor.

I know this isn't much help but it's all I got.

 

[MikeFerrara]

One more thing...if you show it to the instructor and they like it and use it...let-em think it was their idea. LOL

 

[O-ring]

If I had it to do again, I am not sure I would do it. I started about 6-8 months ago and am nowhere near done. My heart just isn't in it. Since I already paid for it, I will finish it, but right now I am on the 2-3 year DM plan . I just don't like working with students as much as I thought I would and I don't plan to work as a DM.

Maybe once I finally cert I will look around for a more like-minded instructor...maybe I would enjoy it more then.

 

[Scubatooth]

Before i started my DM course (and before i knew anything about da long hose ) there was a students husband who got her rig and had a 7 foot hose on it as the octo. the hose it self was looped in a coil on the tank (secured by surgical tubing) and then hte octo was on a necklace on the ladies neck.

well while on a SI the question came up of her rig and why it was that way as opposed the the quote standard jacket and regs set up. the instructor who is an idiot didnt have a clue but faked it for about 5 mins before being told by the ladies husband he was wrong. he explained it that it was good in OW for rec in two reasons one for OOA or sharing if the bouyancy isnt quite right, and that your not right next to the person, jsut in case the wig out. then after that and the questions were answered he gave why techies do that , and thats been said here before, so either way is right, may be instructors preference but either is good from what i have heard.

is this clear enough to everybody ?


BTW in all of this i was just helping out in prep for my DM work, but now im not affilated with this shop or instructor because he is a liar, cheat and a theif who shouldnt be teaching scuba to anybody.

 

[Mo2vation]

Its interesting to read through this thread - maybe there are others that deal with that subject...the whole "what next, isn't there more to this, what do I do now..." thing.

SSi, and I;m sure others, have given significant thought to what they would consider a logical succession of events - as training progresses, and experience grows, maybe you branch off to teaching, or leading, or technician, rescue, etc.

Some of these classes or "skills" certianly were set up with a career in diving in mind. Some of us may want that, some of us just may want ot be safer, more knowledgable divers without leaving our current careers and/or dealing with students or the politics / business issues of an LDS.

If this whole what next thing has been done to death, then I apologize for bringing it up again - but the time is coming soon for me personally when I'm going to have to re-evaluate my overall dive objectives:

* be a diver with mad game (skilled, competent, confident, controlled, experienced, etc.)

* be a skilled and educated diver (extended classroom training combined with mad game...)

* be in diver leadership (teaching, leading, presenting, selling, owning, etc...)

...or some variation of above. For now, I'm enjoying gaining the experience and focusing on the skill excellence. I want some more classroom stuff as well to build knowledge that will support my objectives - I'm just not solid on what my objectives are yet.

K