where do the Octopus and Computer go on Halcyon Pioneer BP/WINGS

[Dxtreme]

now, can somebody share their experience or post a pic of their Halcyon or BP/WING with the console on ??

SHould i use retractable cord for the Computer that is on the left hip or should i just clip and unclip to use the computer ?

 

[Cave Diver]

I will be in the pool tomorrow night with students and I plan to approach it a slightly different way. The instructor is one of my regular dive buddies and took the DIRF course with me, as well as several others.

I'll be diving in my normal rig, which is doubles and hogarthian setup.

I am thinking that I will probably breathe from my backup, and loop the long hose and bungy it on my necklace.

That way if I donate to a student, I can still donate my long hose, but not confuse them with the "give them the one you're breathing" aspect of it just yet.

During the class last night, he showed them various bc's and a bp/w set up, and pointed out differences between them, so they shouldnt be too shocked when I show up with my gear.

 

[O-ring]

Mo2vation once bubbled...
Its interesting to read through this thread - maybe there are others that deal with that subject...the whole "what next, isn't there more to this, what do I do now..." thing.

SSi, and I;m sure others, have given significant thought to what they would consider a logical succession of events - as training progresses, and experience grows, maybe you branch off to teaching, or leading, or technician, rescue, etc.

Some of these classes or "skills" certianly were set up with a career in diving in mind. Some of us may want that, some of us just may want ot be safer, more knowledgable divers without leaving our current careers and/or dealing with students or the politics / business issues of an LDS.

If this whole what next thing has been done to death, then I apologize for bringing it up again - but the time is coming soon for me personally when I'm going to have to re-evaluate my overall dive objectives:

* be a diver with mad game (skilled, competent, confident, controlled, experienced, etc.)

* be a skilled and educated diver (extended classroom training combined with mad game...)

* be in diver leadership (teaching, leading, presenting, selling, owning, etc...)

...or some variation of above. For now, I'm enjoying gaining the experience and focusing on the skill excellence. I want some more classroom stuff as well to build knowledge that will support my objectives - I'm just not solid on what my objectives are yet.

K

..and I don't remember it being done to death, so this seems like a natural progression of the thread. We can talk about all this stuff and still get Dxtreme's questions answered, IMHO. What some call hijacking, I call "natural conversation"...if in the course of regular conversation somebody got mad every time the subject changed we would have awfully short conversations..

Anyway, I am of the opinion that I kinda screwed up with the DM thing. It was a while back, I was fresh out of DIRF, and had just witnessed how much fun the GUE guys have working with classes (at least it looked like fun). Not to mention all the new stuff I had just learned and was dying to pass on to someone...like a curtain had been lifted and I had to share with the world. So my instructor from rescue asked me about doing DM and I decided to do it.

Well...come to find out, and Mike is the authority on this so I will yield to his expertise, the dive industry is a f$@*ed up place and I don't really see a place for me in it other than as a consumer. Spending the weekend at the quarry with students is fun...compared to sitting on my couch and doing nothing. When compared to doing an ocean dive with my best friends (who are my dive buddies coincidentally ) it doesn't even come close.

Being a good diver and being a good instructor of diving are two very different things. Working with students requires infinite amounts of patience and a lot of, IMHO, swallowing what you think is right and "buying in" to the whole recreational certification marketplace. One of my buddies, also a member of this board, is doing DM with me. He is a natural at it (I am not)... He spent about 4 hours one afternoon working with 2 extremely fussy women to get their weighting right. 4 HOURS. I just can't do that kind of stuff...they would have driven me to madness after 30 mins. I can work with "good students" who are cool people and are excited about diving. It takes real skill (and NOT diving skill...the people kind) to work with students like that and, sad to say, from my experience there are a lot like that in scuba classes. I love to dive with new people and I love to dive with new divers...what I don't like doing is dealing with the ones that are not excited, don't really want to be there, have no interest in anything other than getting certified (why, I have no clue), and will probably dive a couple times a year for a couple years and then quit. Anyone that works with students has a million stories about stupid, dangerous, and exasperating things that have happened in classes...it is just way different from diving for pleasure at a place you want to dive with people you want to dive with...it makes it more like work...and I dive to get away from work.

 

[sheck33]

O-ring once bubbled...

I hope Mike can arm you with the appropriate ammo. I don't have a lot of say in the matter however...the instructor told me that is the gear setup I need to use for the pool sessions and, barring a big argument with him, I don't see a way around it.

You dont see a way around it. Actually there is a way around this i am seriously considering. Not deal with PADI classes anymore.
The instructor i help doesnt care i use the DIR setup, the LDS doesn't want me to do it but they people that mind are not on the beach checking what i dive. As far as the pool work goes, i am thinking about stopping. The way things are done is a disservice to students and i want no part of it.

 

[O-ring]

sheck33 once bubbled...


You dont see a way around it. Actually there is a way around this i am seriously considering. Not deal with PADI classes anymore.
The instructor i help doesnt care i use the DIR setup, the LDS doesn't want me to do it but they people that mind are not on the beach checking what i dive. As far as the pool work goes, i am thinking about stopping. The way things are done is a disservice to students and i want no part of it.

...that's one way around it. I think I will play ball with what the instructor wants until I get my DM finished. Then I won't DM anymore...problem solved!

 

[leadweight]

Dxtreme once bubbled...
now, can somebody share their experience or post a pic of their Halcyon or BP/WING with the console on ??

SHould i use retractable cord for the Computer that is on the left hip or should i just clip and unclip to use the computer ?

Just attach the bolt snap to the high pressure hose. The standard high pressure hose should be long enough so that you can grab the computer and look at it without unclipping it. If it is not that long, then you have to unclip it to use the computer. Just get in the water. It is amazing how obvious things are when you try them.

 

[Spectre]

O-ring once bubbled...
.it is just way different from diving for pleasure at a place you want to dive with people you want to dive with...it makes it more like work...and I dive to get away from work.

Eric, I agree 110%. I've been steering away from dive instruction like the plague. I see way to many parallels between the diving and the skiing industry and the instructor desires purged from my head extremely quickly. I'm sure the agencies make changes to the progression much like PSIA [the guys in charge of skiing progression] did in skiing. I got so annoyed with changes in drills and teaching methods that were just so for the sake of change.

The burn out rate for ski instruction is extremely high, and I'm sure the same goes for diving. Personally I made it 7 years before I burned out. When I look back on it, I remember that I loved teaching... the feeling that you got when you saw the pure joy and excitement on someones face. That's probably why I liked the little little ones the best [4 year olds]. But whenever I think about how rewarding it was, I get filled with ideas of returning. As soon as I think that, this knot forms in the back of my neck. Nope... no more instructing for me.

I know a number of folks that pushed it longer than I did. Burned themselves out harder. They rarely ski anymore, they can't get on a pair of skis without getting that knot. I at least can still get out and do the activity that I loved so much I wanted to share it with people.

I see the same potential for diving... it's the same parallels, and the same stresses and the same chance for burnout and the same chance for giving up the sport you love so much that you want to share it with the world.

Let those of us that love to dive use our enthusiasm to encourage the new divers, and the non-diving public with our stories. And those of you with the passion and resolve to love to teach diving... god bless; may the rewards be frequent.

 

[MikeS]

O-ring once bubbled...

...that's one way around it. I think I will play ball with what the instructor wants until I get my DM finished. Then I won't DM anymore...problem solved!

It’s difficult to change a system from outside. Maybe with time, I’ll become cynical too; but for now I think, the thing to do is to “pay my dues,” get certified as a DM and then push the envelope of the standards to make improvements.

Dxtreme once bubbled...
now, can somebody share their experience or post a pic of their Halcyon or BP/WING with the console on ??

Should i use retractable cord for the Computer that is on the left hip or should i just clip and unclip to use the computer ?

Dxtreme,

Sorry once again for my part in hijacking your thread. I would take a picture but my tanks are in for VIP so I cannot assembly things. I have a Cobra with a compass attached making a “console” of sorts. Rather than attaching the bolt snap to the HP hose, I attached it to the end of the compass. The downside is that to read the compass or Cobra I have to unsnap it; after some practice, I can unsnap it and re-snap it subconsciously. The upside is a more streamlined configuration and the computer is better protected.

Mike

 

[landlocked]

Our SSI shop is teaching donation from the mouth. They do this for reasons that have been discussed on this board but also because they like air2's. I think the industry will eventually go that way. It might be possible to discuss sharing your primary if you come at it from an air2 standpoint as well as from a tech standpoint (long hose for overheads, best not to mention DIR?) If both of these develpments within the industry agree where is the argument. The net result is that a 40 inch hose on the primary and a 24 inch bungeed backup (it is still within the triangle) meet both standards. The only issue is really, which do you donate. Personally, I want nothing to do with your octo.

 

[MikeFerrara]

O-ring and sheck33,

I certainly understand your frustration. That's kind of how I ended up owning a shop (I couldn't teah for anyone else). Even so, I still do things far differently than I did then. For now you will be the underdog. You tell divers of unheard of things like learning trim and bc in an OW class and using a long hose. I have divers come in after talking to other shops, who no doubt tell them I'm crazzy, and they ask me why nobody else does it this way if it's so good. Try answering that one. The only way to convince anyone is to show them. You can spot my OW students in the quarry. They are the ones who look like they already took DIRF (except for a snorkel here and there). LOL

I have even talked to long time instructors who are GREAT cave divers and instructors but never thought of teaching OW differently. Change is slow.

It is less interesting to work with a student who only wants a card so they can dive on vacation. However, some of those are the ones who become the avid divers. It's your enthusiasm, skill and attitude that get's it done.