Which is most dangerous: Dark Narc, Euphoric Narc, or "I'm just dumb" narc?
- Thread starter bottomfeeder22
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While I can agree with alot of what you say this is the statement that makes me uncomfortable. It ties in with what Dr Bill said. The most dangerous feeling is the "who me" type of narcosis.
I also have a high tolerance to narcosis (maybe fewer brain cells
) and I am amused by those who have convinced themselves they are unsafe below 60ft due to narcosis but I have watched divers I consider quite capable not perform as well at depths as shallow as 100ft. I have made navigational errors in wrecks I was quite familiar with at depths above 130ft even though I did not feel I was narced.My point is saying narcosis poses no danger is dangerous.
OP
bottomfeeder22
Contributor
I always call the 100 to 150' depth range, the Caustion zone because you may not feel like you're narced but in reality you are. Narcosis maybe mild at that depth and most diver will function fairly well until the **** hit the fan.
BDSC
Contributor
While I can agree with alot of what you say this is the statement that makes me uncomfortable. It ties in with what Dr Bill said. The most dangerous feeling is the "who me" type of narcosis.
I also have a high tolerance to narcosis (maybe fewer brain cells
My point is saying narcosis poses no danger is dangerous.
Point well taken Dave!
It was interesting to read a lot of the studies I looked up. Actually, most of the indepth studies that were done where they measure peoples responses to problems, tasks, etc. were not even done at recreation depths. They were done well below that at depths of 200ft. plus. (Of course many of these studies are chamber studies) It appears that's where a lot of underwater work is done or deeper and that's where a lot of the focus is with these studies. The studies indicate that about 100 ft. is where early symptoms may start to occur. It seems like 180ft. kept coming up as the depth where you are narced even if you don't think you are and you will have symptoms. Below that depth there are real dangers to the diver including blackout. But the blackout may also be due to oxygen toxicity and not nitrogen narcosis.
BDSC
Contributor
Great. Then it won't be too hard for you to find studies to support what you said all studies you've read say then will it?
No. It would be quite easy for me to do that. But you will learn a lot more if you will do it on your own instead of me doing it for you. Try it. I know you can do it.
By the way, I didn't say ALL studies. I indicated most studies. Read carefully please.
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First off, narcosis affects everybody to one degree or another. It's a chemical reaction in our body that blocks electrical impulses to our nervous system affecting our ability to perceive, process, and respond ... and unless your body chemistry works differently than everybody elses, you DO get narced whether you realize it or not. It affects everyone differently, and often affects the same diver differently on different dives and circumstances. So one can experience narcosis in many ways, and at different depths. These differences can be both in the manner it affects you and the severity of the effects.
To say you've never known anyone who experienced narcosis suggests that you've never dived ... or at least never gone deep enough to recognize its effect. Other factors besides depth that can contribute to narcosis are fatigue, exertion, cold water, rapid descent, poor visibility, and hypercapnia (CO2 buildup).
It is often the case that you'll notice narcosis in someone else before you notice it in yourself ... if you know what to look for. In divers you're familiar with, subtle behavioral patterns, such as a lack of communication, or even buoyancy issues (due to changes in breathing pattern) will usually be the first clue.
The manifestations of narcosis depend a great deal on your personality and your state of mind ... in much the same way as alcohol ... (e.g. there are "happy drunks", "morose drunks", "angry drunks", etc). And like alcohol, some people are better at dealing with the effects than others. To a large degree, that has to do with your self-confidence ... which is why those who dive "deep air" learn to do so by progressively diving to deeper depths. They're not only learning how to manage task loading while narced, but they're building confidence in themselves in order to manage what narcosis can do to your emotional state (which can be one of the most deadly aspects, since it can lead to stress and eventually panic).
Remember ... narcosis in itself isn't harmful. How you manage it is what can cause the problem. Each of us has our own ability to manage narcosis, based on our skill level, emotional makeup, and self-confidence.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
To say you've never known anyone who experienced narcosis suggests that you've never dived ... or at least never gone deep enough to recognize its effect. Other factors besides depth that can contribute to narcosis are fatigue, exertion, cold water, rapid descent, poor visibility, and hypercapnia (CO2 buildup).
It is often the case that you'll notice narcosis in someone else before you notice it in yourself ... if you know what to look for. In divers you're familiar with, subtle behavioral patterns, such as a lack of communication, or even buoyancy issues (due to changes in breathing pattern) will usually be the first clue.
The manifestations of narcosis depend a great deal on your personality and your state of mind ... in much the same way as alcohol ... (e.g. there are "happy drunks", "morose drunks", "angry drunks", etc). And like alcohol, some people are better at dealing with the effects than others. To a large degree, that has to do with your self-confidence ... which is why those who dive "deep air" learn to do so by progressively diving to deeper depths. They're not only learning how to manage task loading while narced, but they're building confidence in themselves in order to manage what narcosis can do to your emotional state (which can be one of the most deadly aspects, since it can lead to stress and eventually panic).
Remember ... narcosis in itself isn't harmful. How you manage it is what can cause the problem. Each of us has our own ability to manage narcosis, based on our skill level, emotional makeup, and self-confidence.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Complete rubbish. Narcosis is NOT something you always gradually feel. Its a gradual impairment of reactions and just like other things on land it also impairs the ability to judge how impaired you actually are.
Yes you can be feeling fine and think you aren't narked. You still are whether you think it or not.
The real test is how someone deals with a stressful and unexpected situation underwater and there are mountains of evidence here to back up narcosis affecting everyone. Doing puzzles or writing your name backwards is a useless indicator.
If you're going to mention articles lets have proper peer-reviewed article to back up your claims. "google" is not a valid response. If you're putting a counter-point provide specifics.
That strikes me as a pretty sound view of things. Bit like drinking a couple of beers and then driving. You will probably be fine, but if a kid suddenly steps out in front of you... you are that much less capable of dealing with the unexpected...
BDSC
Contributor
Really? Complete rubbish? Were you with me during my diving experiences where I observed this? Maybe you were and I don't recognize you from your picture. But since there are "mountains of evidence here to back up narcosis affecting everyone" then you'll share with us all those "peer-reviewed articles" that show this. After all, "If you're putting a counter-point provide specifics".
But please don't do a search on the internet for this type of info. Go to your vast library of info at home or work and share with me.
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